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C02 and You

Climate change.  Is it real?  Is it happening, or is it just a load of crap?

Frankly I don’t care, but plenty of people do.

So here is a dedicated space for “you people” to “discuss” the so-called “climate change” debate…

 

 

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406 Comments leave one →
  1. March 30, 2012 7:03 pm

    Haha, marginalise the zealots!

  2. Tony permalink
    April 3, 2012 7:21 am

    No Global Warming For 15 Years: New UK Met Office global temperature data confirms that the world has not warmed in the past 15 years.

    “We are at the point where the temperature standstill is becoming the dominant feature of the post-1980 warming, and as such cannot be dismissed as being unimportant even when viewed over 30 years.”

    “It is time that the scientific community in general and the IPCC in particular acknowledged the reality of the global temperature standstill and the very real challenge it implies for our understanding of climate change and estimates of its future effects.”

    “It is a demonstration that the science is not settled, and that there are great uncertainties in our understanding of the real-world greenhouse effect when combined with anthropogenic and natural factors.”

  3. el gordo permalink
    April 3, 2012 7:56 am

    Andrew Bolt has been running hard on climate change for weeks…they sniff victory.

  4. Tom R permalink
    April 3, 2012 8:45 am

    they sniff victory.

    They certainly reek of something.

  5. el gordo permalink
    April 3, 2012 8:47 am

    What a wonderful thread, I’m surprisingly speechless.

  6. Tom R permalink
    April 3, 2012 9:06 am

    The Technical Note on Tonys link is interesting

  7. April 3, 2012 9:25 am

    “they sniff victory”

    Premature expulsions.

  8. el gordo permalink
    April 3, 2012 11:10 am

    All we are sayin’ Thomas is that CO2 does not cause global warming and perhaps we should not tax a harmless trace gas until we have more proof.

    I’m thinking of the ‘precautionary principle’ which got us into this mess.

  9. Bacchus permalink
    April 3, 2012 11:37 am

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/petergleick/2012/02/05/global-warming-has-stopped-how-to-fool-people-using-cherry-picked-climate-data/

    The current favorite argument of those who argue that climate changes isn’t happening, or a problem, or worth dealing with, is that global warming has stopped. Therefore (they conclude) scientists must be wrong when they say that climate change is caused by humans, worsening, and ultimately a serious environmental problem that must be addressed by policy makers.

    The problem with this argument is that it is false: global warming has not stopped and those who repeat this claim over and over are either lying, ignorant, or exhibiting a blatant disregard for the truth.

    So which is it? 😉

  10. el gordo permalink
    April 3, 2012 11:58 am

    Global warming has flattened and will soon fall, along with sea level. There is no need to be afrayd.

  11. Splatterbottom permalink
    April 3, 2012 12:08 pm

    Peter Gleick!! That would be the ethically challenged shill who was responsible for Fakegate then? The one who was forced to resign as Chair of the Task Force on Scientific Ethics of the American Geophysical Union for his unethical conduct? Really?

  12. Tom R permalink
    April 3, 2012 1:31 pm

    For grodo Bacchus, I think the answer is “All of the Above” 😉

  13. el gordo permalink
    April 3, 2012 3:08 pm

    Time will tell Tom.

  14. Tony permalink
    April 3, 2012 4:02 pm

    Glenn Reynolds: Faith in science? Why skepticism is rising

  15. el gordo permalink
    April 3, 2012 4:54 pm

    This show on climate change may be pivotal in the public debate about the tax.

    http://www.abc.net.au/tv/changeyourmind/

  16. JAWS permalink
    April 3, 2012 5:33 pm

    Good to see El Gordo has a private little sandpit to play in here on this thread. 🙂

  17. TB Queensland permalink
    April 3, 2012 5:39 pm

    Mmm … that HD has wonderful insight … IATW ….

  18. JAWS permalink
    April 3, 2012 5:56 pm

    “Mmm … that HD has wonderful insight … IATW ….”

    LOL

    I hardly made it difficult to detect

    New Blog………….New Outlook……………..

    IATW = KR, KL=AO, HD = Toilet????????

    Hardly anything unusual.

    Time for a change

    You should try it sometime…………………get out of the Safari Suits for a change

  19. April 3, 2012 6:00 pm

    “get out of the Safari Suits for a change”

    LOL! 🙂

  20. JAWS permalink
    April 3, 2012 6:04 pm

    By the way my inclination for “JAWS” came after going fishing last Monday with my mate. We saw 5 bull sharks of various sizes amongst a stack of bait fish 2kms off Palm Beach.

    If governments were as efficient as those things are at swimming catching and eating none of us would be complaining.

    We mused to ourselves that we should invite Bob Brown and Christine Milne out on the boat and suggest they go for a snorkel

  21. el gordo permalink
    April 3, 2012 6:11 pm

    Earthians don’t snorkel.

  22. TB Queensland permalink
    April 3, 2012 6:49 pm

    Arkttually IATW … I was referring to HD’s first post …

    As for safari suits some of us remain sartorial without having change names …

    … if one recalls I had some influence in KL’s posting name change and I’m sure that I did with James’ …

    … but we are widely off topic … thsi is the dedicated thread to CO2 & You …

  23. Tony permalink
    April 3, 2012 7:39 pm

    If you still believe in “Peak Oil” , you’d better read this. . .

    A world awash in oil: Middle East will go back to being an obscure backwater

  24. el gordo permalink
    April 3, 2012 7:41 pm

    The planet is not under pressure…

    http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2012/4/2/optimistography-josh-159.html

  25. el gordo permalink
    April 3, 2012 7:48 pm

    ‘No journalist ever got the front page writing a story about how disaster was now less likely. Pressure groups and their customers in the media search even the most cheerful statistics for glimmers of doom. Don’t be browbeaten-dare to be an optimist!’

    Matt Ridley

  26. JAWS permalink
    April 3, 2012 10:24 pm

    But TB Safari Suits are always “in fashion” so hardly off topic I would think

  27. JAWS permalink
    April 3, 2012 10:45 pm

    Fair Work Australia are supposed to be looking after productivity
    in this great nation of ours.

    Yet it takes them 3 years to do a report
    on one series of transactions.

    FAIL

  28. JAWS permalink
    April 4, 2012 9:17 am

    Finally clear evidence that Climate Change is apparently not all that important after all

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/climate/labor-takes-axe-to-green-bureaucrats-to-bolster-surplus/story-e6frg6xf-1226318042678

  29. el gordo permalink
    April 6, 2012 11:10 am

    Here is some more on that, shane, with links to the source.

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=what-thawed-the-last-ice-age

  30. el gordo permalink
    April 7, 2012 9:06 am

    The sceptical blogs are now having a hard look at the Shakun paper and Willis Eschenbach put up this graph.

  31. TB Queensland permalink
    April 7, 2012 9:44 am

    But TB Safari Suits are always “in fashion” so hardly off topic I would think

    I actually replied to this a coupla days ago! Along the lines …

    Safari suits are “cool” and if they brought them back, I reckon the young chicks’d reckon they were “hot” … (I think you can still get them made overseas?)

  32. el gordo permalink
    April 7, 2012 10:18 am

    Checking out that poll in Tony’s link…I think the noze have it.

    Gillard’s screwed.

  33. April 7, 2012 11:59 am

    Nothing like embracing the results of an online poll which conform to your own heartfelt zealotry.

    So credible.

    Such a genuine indication of the ‘bigger picture’.

    Still, at least it’s quarantined to this thread.

  34. Tom R permalink
    April 7, 2012 12:43 pm

    The consensus can not be denied!

    FAAARK

    You lot have been doing it for years 😯

  35. el gordo permalink
    April 7, 2012 1:01 pm

    Down at the cafe they say its typical of a Murdoch rag to highlight some obscure group running a poll.

    Fairfax will have to do a poll to get some balance.

  36. Bacchus permalink
    April 7, 2012 1:05 pm

    At least Fairfax have the sense to put a disclaimer on their online polls…

    Disclaimer: These polls are not scientific and reflect the opinion only of visitors who have chosen to participate.

  37. Bacchus permalink
    April 7, 2012 1:08 pm

    The “polls” that really amaze me are the ones run by the TV stations, usually in conjunction with their news or current affairs. Who TF would pay to participate in a meaningless phone-in poll? Some people have no idea, as can be seen by the political bent such polls usually take 😉

  38. el gordo permalink
    April 7, 2012 1:17 pm

    A Nielsen Poll taken earlier this month said…

    ‘The carbon tax – which starts on July 1 – is more unpopular than ever, with 60 per cent opposed, one point higher than in October, and only 36 per cent in favour. One third of ALP voters oppose the carbon price, which Ms Gillard regards as a signature reform.’

  39. Tony permalink
    April 7, 2012 1:18 pm

    “Nothing like embracing the results of an online poll which conform to your own heartfelt zealotry.”

    😯

    “AustraliaSCAN is a syndicated quantitative annual study established in 1992. Its insights are based on 2,000 interviews with adults australia-wide, using a mix of face-to-face interviewing and self-completion questionnaires (a methodology tailored to the tricky task of measuring culture).”

    http://www.qmr.com.au/

  40. Tony permalink
    April 7, 2012 1:26 pm

    “Fieldwork is conducted in October/November each year among a
    representative national sample of approximately 2000 Australians aged 18
    and above.

    Interviewing is conducted in-home. The first part of the questionnaire,
    covering values, issues and demographics, is administered face-to face,
    taking about one hour. The remainder of the questionnaire is then left for
    respondents to complete in their own time (approximately two to three
    hours) over two weeks.

    During this period a minimum of two telephone calls are made to each
    respondent to ensure completion of the questionnaire.”

    http://www.qmr.com.au/pdf/2009IntroductionToAustraliaSCAN_ND.pdf

  41. el gordo permalink
    April 7, 2012 1:27 pm

    ‘Such a genuine indication of the ‘bigger picture’.

    The polls will keep coming and I suggest Julia shelve the tax until after the next election…this will save the taxpayer a lot of money and possibly the party from annihilation.

  42. April 7, 2012 1:30 pm

    Apologies.

    I thought you were crowing about the poll in the sidebar of the article at AdelaideNow. The one which has been infested with rabid anti-zealots.

    The only honest answer, of the 3 options provided, is the last one…”undecided”.

  43. April 7, 2012 1:33 pm

    Clearly, trickle down from the disinformationists on either side is beginning to permeate the general population; outside of the obsessives.

  44. Tony permalink
    April 7, 2012 1:47 pm

    A great big new tax might have focused minds on what was previously an abstract concept, where arguments from authority were passively accepted. Events (or lack thereof) could also have played a part in the evident increase of scepticism.

  45. el gordo permalink
    April 7, 2012 1:49 pm

    ‘…outside of the obsessives.’

    TomR and me share a portfolio, climate change is big news and a lot depends on the outcome.

    This thread provides an ideal space (thanx Reb) for us to split hairs, but I will refrain from over linking with wordy stuff and instead concentrate on graphs.

    We two obsessives will remain opposed, which should make for great sport and many laughs.

  46. Tom R permalink
    April 7, 2012 2:23 pm

    TomR and me share a portfolio

    No grodo, wrong again. I share an interest in facts, you share an interest in bullshit. The ‘portfolios’ are as far apart as they can be

  47. Tom R permalink
    April 7, 2012 2:27 pm

    A great big new tax

    I wonder why we haven’t heard boo from the media about tabots revelations that his ‘levy’ is actually a tax.

    Selective amnesia from our press pack?

    I mean, we have had daily regurgitations just cos Gillard (stupidly) said that the media can call hers a tax if they want, but tabot actually admits it……crickets.

  48. el gordo permalink
    April 7, 2012 2:32 pm

    Fair enough Tom…

    Scott Denning is a warmist scientist and this is what he said the other day on the problem of dissent.

    ‘Ignoring climate contrarians has not made them go away. In fact, their message has resonated with an increasing slice of public opinion for several years.

    ‘Tony Leiserowitz* (Yale University) and colleagues survey public opinion on climate change and find persistent and growing segments of the American public that are doubtful or dismissive about the human role in climate change.’

    And its also happening in Europe, but of course you already know that.

  49. Tony permalink
    April 7, 2012 2:43 pm

    Abbott’s levy/tax on business to fund paid maternity leave is an anti-free market, anti-small government policy which properly belongs with the big spenders on the other side of government. Abbott has admitted, to his disgrace, that when it comes to a choice between populism and policy purity, he’ll choose populism.

    All of which doesn’t change the electorate’s dislike of Gillard’s carbon tax/price. Gillard was going to “bring the public along”, and not move on this issue until there was a popular consensus. Instead she’s bludgeoned the electorate with a despised policy and will pay for it at the next election.

  50. Tom R permalink
    April 7, 2012 2:44 pm

    Ignoring climate contrarians has not made them go away.

    The problem is not the ignoring, it is the way the media lift these bozzos up to be some sort of credible source on the subject, when the truth is, they are almost all nothing but cranks.

    If any sort of ‘scepticism’ was applied to their ramblings, they would be a laughing stock (much like yourself). The fact is, it isn’t, it is swallowed as gospel by ideologically motivated corners

  51. Tony permalink
    April 7, 2012 2:56 pm

    “The problem is not the ignoring, it is the way the media lift these bozzos up to be some sort of credible source on the subject, when the truth is, they are almost all nothing but cranks.”

    If one got all their information on the topic from Deltoid and its ilk that’s exactly what you’d think. Others who look further afield know there’s more to this story, and not all dissenting scientists are cranks.

    “The greatest friend of truth is time.”

  52. Tom R permalink
    April 7, 2012 2:56 pm

    there was a popular consensus

    yes, there was 😉

    And, as I mentioned, why are we not seeing tabots revelation blazoned across the front pages. I would have thought a ‘backflip’ like that would have had some mild interest out there?

  53. Tony permalink
    April 7, 2012 3:06 pm

    There’s a popular consensus now, and it’s anti-Gillard, anti-carbon tax. The “unelectable” Abbott will win the next election by default, not because he deserves it, but because the public can’t wait to be rid of this government. NSW and Qld were previews, but Labor and its apologists are still in denial that those elections had any bearing on what’s happening federally.

  54. Tony permalink
    April 7, 2012 3:07 pm

    And it’s all the media’s fault, according to you and others. 🙄

  55. el gordo permalink
    April 7, 2012 3:10 pm

    ‘…it is swallowed as gospel by ideologically motivated corners’

    We must not forget a third of Labor supporters are changing their votes, as seen in NSW and Qld.

    The contagion will spread everywhere unless something is done quickly.

    ————————

    Talking of ‘ideologically motivated corners’ I’ve been lurking at Deltoid and discovered new chum Karen is a force to be reckoned with.

  56. April 8, 2012 3:25 am

    😯

    I’m inclined to agree with everything Tony typed after 2:43pm.

  57. April 8, 2012 3:27 am

    …& the comment @ 1:47…

  58. el gordo permalink
    April 8, 2012 9:22 am

    Yep boss, Tony has nailed it with few words, which is not easy in such a heated debate.

  59. April 8, 2012 11:03 am

    This smells a bit like cynical desperation (and won’t work as a salve)…

    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/carbon-tax-cash-flows-from-pm/story-e6frea6u-1226321269833

  60. el gordo permalink
    April 8, 2012 11:36 am

    The handout will be all the talk down at the cafe…this is one large pork barrel by Julia et al.

    The good news is that the Deltoid larrikins are talking climate science again. With the Bolter pushing hard on the issue the debate was bound to spill over.

  61. April 8, 2012 11:47 am

    Nope, sorry eg..you’re wrong..again. 🙄

  62. el gordo permalink
    April 8, 2012 12:33 pm

    Maybe tomorrow or the next day?

  63. el gordo permalink
    April 8, 2012 1:00 pm

    China has decided to go nuclear instead of solar.

    http://www.elp.com/index/from-the-wires/wire_news_display/1621584677.html

  64. April 8, 2012 1:05 pm

    Eg..only if you lob..

    China is actually going with algae.. The US used to be the leader in biofuels, but it’s now China. Just me but the Chinese don’t do things for no reason. 😉

  65. el gordo permalink
    April 8, 2012 2:16 pm

    Perhaps not, but they are determined to have ‘base load’, which puts ‘renewables’ in a realistic context.

    So a mix of coal and nuclear will provide their needs, while at the same time they will continue with innovative ideas in renewables if there is a dollar to be made.

  66. April 8, 2012 3:34 pm

    El gordo..think reinhardtii, I’ll leave the rest of the research up to you. But here’s a clue, the UniSA, UQ and Beijing.

  67. el gordo permalink
    April 8, 2012 4:31 pm

    You are saying that UQ and UniSA are working with the Germans and Chinese, and that ‘all research currently conducted has to include economic feasibility.’

    This is a grey area.

    Innovation is a long term investment and government assistance is often called upon, but if Gina is involved there’s no problem.

  68. el gordo permalink
    April 9, 2012 8:59 pm

    Back on the story of Shakun et al. (which had the sceptics in a spin) it seems that the paper has flaws.

    One of these is the missing link, the Younger Dryas was a sharply cool dip which fails to show up in their calculations.

    CO2 has no case to answer in bringing the world out of glacial conditions.

  69. el gordo permalink
    April 9, 2012 9:03 pm

    The Younger Dryas took place over 2000 years (temperatures plunged around 8 degrees) and it happened between the blue arrows.

    This reality is not apparent in the Shakun paper.

  70. el gordo permalink
    April 10, 2012 3:13 pm

    Excuse this intrusion, pondering the Archibald factor, at this rate temperatures should plummet worldwide by about one degree within 20 years.

  71. April 10, 2012 9:45 pm

    Well, I was undecided, but after considering Sturmbahnfuhrer Pell’s erratic, blustery half answer to the question put to him regarding AGW I have arrived at a conclusion!

    *drumroll*

    A- I know where Tony Abbott gets his information from on the important issues of the day.

    B- Herr Pell doesn’t think very carefully before he constructs his responses.

    C- god is responsible for AGW, something, something, unholy apple tree, something, Noah’s Ark, something, something, Jews weren’t very intellectual.

    D- People actually look to that bent old sonofabitch for ‘guidance’.

    E- The church enters into scientific arguments at its peril.

    E- Andrew Bolt whispered in Pell’s ear last night that it might be good to energise their collective base by taking the opportunity to rubbish Flannery’s exaggerations…while ignoring the multitude of logical inconsistencies advanced by his own peculiar ‘faith’.

    F- Pascal’s wager is a total cop out…

  72. Tony permalink
    April 11, 2012 7:46 am

    Climate scientists are losing the public debate on global warming

    “People have become bored by some of the rhetoric from the green movement as they have other things to worry about.

    “In reality the backlash against climate change has very little to do with the sceptics. We will take credit for instilling some debate but it is mainly an economic issue. Climate change is not seen as being urgent any more.

    “James Hensen has been making predictions about climate change since the 1980s. When people are comparing what is happening now to those predictions, they can see they fail to match up.”

  73. el gordo permalink
    April 11, 2012 8:12 am

    The green red tape will be the death of AGW in Britain…this from Christopher Booker.

    ‘Anyone thinking of building a new conservatory, replacing their old boiler or putting in new windows had better move fast.

    ‘If they wait a couple of years they could find themselves falling foul of a deluge of new ‘green’ red tape that will leave them having to pay thousands of pounds extra.

    ‘Under plans being discussed by the Government, revealed by yesterday’s Daily Mail, anyone hoping to make improvements to their home from 2014 may have to carry out a whole lot of additional works to show their property is ‘energy efficient’.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2127444/This-green-tax-conservatories-just-start-red-tape-nightmare-homeowners.html#ixzz1rg6MhCmV

  74. Tom R permalink
    April 11, 2012 8:20 am

    From Tony’s link

    public scepticism about the threat of man-made climate change has increased despite the growing scientific consensus.

    And, apparently, this is something to be celebrated 😯

    Personally, I think it is testament to the complete failure that our current media is, when the general populace is at odds with the science. If the message is too hard to swallow (or doesn’t fit with the media owners perceptions), change the message. Simple really.

  75. Tom R permalink
    April 11, 2012 9:40 am

    ltdnews forgot to complete the story TB, So unlike them

    “We have put in place a fund for charities to help them with the transition to the carbon price,” she told ABC Radio on Wednesday.

    http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/charities-to-receive-carbon-tax-help-wong-20120411-1wp96.html?skin=text-only

  76. TB Queensland permalink
    April 11, 2012 10:39 am

    TomR that statement is in the ltd.news link along with this one too …

    While charities would be hit inadvertently by the carbon tax, Climate Change Minister Greg Combet said the government’s Community Energy Efficiency Program would be used to lower the energy use of community organisations

  77. Tom R permalink
    April 11, 2012 10:45 am

    hmm, I read that article this morning, and noted that there wan’t any comment from a government minister at all.

    interesting indeed. I blame the internets

  78. el gordo permalink
    April 11, 2012 5:32 pm

    Fifty former NASA scientists have respectfully requested the organisation stop making shit up.

    ‘We believe the claims by NASA and GISS, that man-made carbon dioxide is having a catastrophic impact on global climate change are not substantiated, especially when considering thousands of years of empirical data.

    ‘With hundreds of well-known climate scientists and tens of thousands of other scientists publicly declaring their disbelief in the catastrophic forecasts, coming particularly from the GISS leadership, it is clear that the science is NOT settled.’

    (More at Jennifer Marohasy)

  79. April 11, 2012 6:20 pm

    scientists 😯

  80. Splatterbottom permalink
    April 11, 2012 6:41 pm

    Gordo the fanatical certainty expressed by the Chicken Little alarmists has nothing to do with settled science and everything to do with their rigidly closed minds. They know, with the razor-sharp clarity of a psychopath, that anyone who disagrees with them could not possibly be a scientist.

  81. Tom R permalink
    April 11, 2012 7:21 pm

    actually, splatbum, I was going on their qualifications 😉

    http://jennifermarohasy.com/2012/04/nasa-rebuked-for-promoting-agw/

  82. Tom R permalink
    April 11, 2012 7:48 pm

    Engineers appear to make a large portion of the list,

    Which is kind of at odds with grodos false declaration (again) of ‘Fifty former NASA scientists ‘

    Which is really funny cos these guys are complaining about ‘unproven remarks in public releases and websites’.

  83. el gordo permalink
    April 11, 2012 8:18 pm

    They appear to be engineers and not atmospheric scientists, point conceded.

  84. Tom R permalink
    April 11, 2012 8:29 pm

    They appear to be engineers and administrators, and astronauts, and analysts. 😉

  85. Tony permalink
    April 11, 2012 8:37 pm

    Whatever they are, their bullshit detectors seem to be working.

  86. Tom R permalink
    April 11, 2012 8:59 pm

    Mine were too Tony. Mind you, I had a head start. grodo has a rep 🙂

  87. el gordo permalink
    April 11, 2012 9:17 pm

    There isn’t going to be a knockout blow in the climate wars, so we may as well settle back and enjoy the popcorn.

    The Shakun paper earlier up the thread had us worried, if correct the Denialati were toast, but within days the sceptics found flaws and we all breathed a sigh of relief.

    This is the new peer review.

  88. el gordo permalink
    April 11, 2012 9:37 pm

    Just been over to Watts and Michael Pacnik (probably not an atmospheric scientist) has a guest post up discussing the ramifications of the Shakun (not stirred) paper.

    I’ll put up this graph from that post…. what do you make of it Tom?

  89. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 11, 2012 10:18 pm

    Regardless of the science, Gillard’s dishonesty has ensured that-
    • Australia will do less, not more, to reduce emissions for a decade.
    • A generation of voters will not believe a political commitment (not that there’s anything wrong with that).
    • Anything other than “yes” or “no” will be regarded as “spin”.

    Thanks Julia!

  90. Tom R permalink
    April 12, 2012 6:28 am

    From ltdnews

    Salvation Army says the carbon tax will be a costly load of rubbish

    From the salvos

    “We cautiously welcome the assurances of the Government that the members of our community in the most need will be adequately supported as a consequence of the costs of living increases that will result from the flow on of the carbon tax,” said Major Cassidy.

    “The Salvation Army appreciates the Government’s intention to ensure that those providers of social services, like aged care, receive compensation for the increased operational costs,” he said.

    “We seek to work with Government and other social service providers to ensure that the ability of such organisations will not be negatively impacted by the introduction of the carbon tax,” said Major Cassidy.

    And yomm reckons Gillard was being untruthful when she said before the last election that she would put a price on Carbon 😯

    I won’t hold my breath on this being reported in the news

  91. TB Queensland permalink
    April 12, 2012 8:21 am

    TomR, where was the Salvos missive available? Just curious …

  92. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 12, 2012 11:47 am

    First Dog sums it all up

    hehe, first dog is very funny tomr.

  93. Splatterbottom permalink
    April 12, 2012 2:35 pm

    Bolt is clearly right on this – welfare benefits should be distributed on the basis of need, not race.

    The shame is that free speech is under attack from the left in this country. I guess that should surprise no one – the thin-skinned cry-babies have never been able to handle the criticism their idiotic ideas so often attract.

  94. el gordo permalink
    April 12, 2012 3:09 pm

    Delingpole on his new book The Watermelons.

  95. Tom R permalink
    April 12, 2012 3:18 pm

    The shame is that free speech is under attack from the left in this country.

    Then why isn’t bolt up in arms about the 50 angry old men trying to shut down NASA from practising science in an open forum?

    Gavin from RealClimate
    As former employees of NASA they should know full well that NASA doesn’t take official positions on scientific issues. I note that they provide no references for the ‘unsupported’ statements that think NASA has made. Scientists who work for NASA are however expected to talk about their results, write about them and submit them for peer review. What these letter writers are asking for is for the administration to curtail the free speech rights of NASA employees that they disagree with and that is just wrong.

    http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2012/03/april_2012_open_thread.php#comment-6256470

    bolt isn’t restricted from commenting on this subject at all, he is restricted from making shit up about people in order to push his argument. The fact that, since that judgement came down, he does all his post with ‘no comment’ says more about his argument than any alledged slight to his ‘freedoms’

  96. Splatterbottom permalink
    April 12, 2012 5:12 pm

    TomR: “Then why isn’t bolt up in arms about the 50 angry old men trying to shut down NASA from practising science in an open forum?”

    Que? Is NASA being hauled before the courts to try to have it’s speech regulated? There is no relevant comparison to be made here at all, is there? Your comment is entirely without substance, logic or merit.

    The fact that some employees asked NASA to rein in the demented Jim Hansen and the village idiot Gavin Schmidt is healthy, and nothing to do with free speech. NASA can say what it wants. The fact that it is having a discussion about what is appropriate for them to say is healthy. The fact that the Realidiots at RealClimate are hysterically whining about free speech is typical of the standard of logic that spouts from that sewer.

  97. Syd Barrett permalink
    April 12, 2012 5:42 pm

    I’m a free-speech extremist which means I’d allow almost all speech, except defamation/libel, and perhaps yelling fire in a crowded theatre. I definitely would not restrict speech on the basis that it is offensive.

    “If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all. ” ~Noam Chomsky

    😯

  98. el gordo permalink
    April 12, 2012 5:49 pm

    I agree with SB and Syd Barrett….and Noam.

  99. TB Queensland permalink
    April 12, 2012 5:51 pm

    I agree with SB and Syd Barrett….and Noam.

    Fuckwits™ (oops! Sorry, Blogmasta … please don’t ban me!)

  100. el gordo permalink
    April 12, 2012 6:23 pm

    Freedom of speech is an integral part of our democracy, which we often take for granted.

  101. TB Queensland permalink
    April 12, 2012 6:35 pm

    Freedom of speech is an integral part of our democracy, which we often take for granted.

    What a load of BS!

  102. el gordo permalink
    April 12, 2012 6:44 pm

    You are entitled to your opinion and I appreciate your candid attitude, but in more important news….

    ‘The NSW government has levelled most of the blame for an average 16 per cent increase in electricity bills from July 1 on the federal government’s carbon tax.

    ‘NSW Energy Minister Chris Hartcher today claimed that the tax would be responsible for more than 90 per cent of the proposed power price rises for western Sydney households announced by the Independent Pricing and Regulatory Tribunal.’

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/electricity-price-rises-blame-the-carbon-tax-says-nsw-20120412-1wvux.html#ixzz1roVq9wGN

  103. TB Queensland permalink
    April 12, 2012 7:18 pm

    Haha, marginalise the zealots!

    In military terms its called marginalise … (although Google wants to “play” with the meaning … funny that?)

    The reason for my post however, is the absence of a “radical thinker” and friend …

  104. Tom R permalink
    April 12, 2012 7:32 pm

    Is NASA being hauled before the courts to try to have it’s speech regulated?

    Is NASA ‘making shit up’ like bolt did? No, they are presenting the findings of scientists. And being asked not to by a gaggle of angry old men.

    bolt is only not allowed to make shit up (wow, what a revelation). He is allowed to speak freely and accurately on the subject

    Freedom of speech my arse. Freedom to lie and mislead is what he wants. It is his entore argument

  105. Splatterbottom permalink
    April 12, 2012 7:45 pm

    Freedom to lie and mislead is obviously very near and dear to your heart TomR. You exploit it to the fullest! 🙂

  106. el gordo permalink
    April 12, 2012 8:13 pm

    Tim Lambert was on holidays and the Deltoid gatekeeper asleep…so I managed to get in a couple of comments before being snipped.

    My inoffensive comments…congratulating Karen for her stunning performance and mentioning to my associates there that its the big shiny thing in the sky which influences climate and not a harmless trace gas.

    My comments were snipped but they were up long enough for others to abuse me and they have been left in.

    Ministry of Truth.

  107. Neil of Sydney permalink
    April 12, 2012 8:27 pm

    “Freedom to lie and mislead is what he wants.”

    Isn’t that what freedom of speech is????

  108. el gordo permalink
    April 12, 2012 8:28 pm

    LOL Neils

  109. el gordo permalink
    April 12, 2012 8:43 pm

    Sea surface temperatures are falling and theoretically should keep going that way for a couple of decades.

    There is some disagreement about the cause.

  110. Tony permalink
    April 12, 2012 8:44 pm

    I had many stimulating discussions with Lotharsson at Tim Dunlops blog on the topic of AGW, el gordo. I’m a bit surprised he condones censorship, although that’s the way the warmists roll, apparently. 😯

  111. el gordo permalink
    April 12, 2012 8:59 pm

    It’s an emotional issue Tony, the propaganda has been intense and even intelligent people have fallen under the spell.

  112. Tony permalink
    April 12, 2012 9:31 pm

    Jeez. I just had a skim of the latest Deltoid thread. They really are a bunch of insular insistent ingrates, willing Lambert back to ban the mysterious, magnificent “Karen”.

  113. el gordo permalink
    April 12, 2012 10:16 pm

    Karen is a gem and has the wicked wit of a gay fellow, plus she knows the science.

  114. Tony permalink
    April 12, 2012 10:43 pm

    “Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has urged his country’s gas industry to “rise to the challenge” of shale gas as the United States and some European countries forge ahead with developing the controversial energy source.

    “US shale gas production may “seriously” restructure supply and demand in the global hydrocarbons market, Putin said yesterday (11 April) in his final address to the Russian Duma before he takes over as president on 7 May.”

    http://www.euractiv.com/energy/putin-fears-shale-gas-competition-news-512108

  115. Tony permalink
    April 12, 2012 10:46 pm

    “The once solid bans on fracking technology to extract shale gas in Bulgaria and France are weakening. Both countries have established committees to examine the technology and practices throughout the EU. The Bulgarian parliament has established an ad-hoc committee to examine EU practices, while the French Government will examine the technology and regulations. The closer look at the technology is not an indication of weakening environmental protection, rather it acknowledges the role shale gas can play in each country’s energy mix.

    “Exclusion of fracking technology only weakens a countries energy security. Gas deposits represent an effective source for domestic energy security. Just as gas storage and network interconnectors ballooned to a key security of supply concern after the 2009 Russian-Ukraine gas dispute, shale gas is emerging as another tool in the box of energy security.”

    http://energyscee.com/2012/04/10/shale-gas-arises-in-france-and-bulgaria/

  116. el gordo permalink
    April 12, 2012 10:53 pm

    The Chinese are heavily invested in US shale gas and have just struck a deal will Shell to exploit their own reserves.

  117. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 13, 2012 12:25 am

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2011/jan/25/horizon-science-under-attack-review

    …One hates to draw conclusions about the wrongheadedness of the views of a climate change-denier such as, say, James Delingpole, simply because he has an unfortunate manner, but that’s my job.

    Nurse’s interview with Delingpole was notable for forming a centrepiece to the programme, and because Delingpole complained he was stitched up on his blog, claiming that a good three hours of him being reasonable and cogent was edited out in favour of one scene where he looks like an idiot. To be fair, there are two scenes where he looks like an idiot. In one he explains that he never reads peer-reviewed scientific literature on the subject of global warming because “it’s not my job”. In the other, he condemns the scientific consensus on global warming – and consensus in general – as unscientific.

    When Nurse presented him with a perfectly reasonable analogy about having cancer and choosing a remedy of one’s own devising over the “consensus” treatment, Delingpole was clearly offended by the apparent comparison to devotees of quack medicine. Later, the programme featured an HIV-positive man who doesn’t believe HIV causes Aids and follows a yoghurt-based treatment of his own devising, who probably didn’t like being lumped in with Delingpole much.

    Nurse issued a call to scientists to be more politically savvy in the wake of the so-called Climategate affair, and to make more of an effort to put data in the public domain. On one level, the scientists v idiots debate is a mere distraction, one destined to be overtaken by events, but in the meantime it demeans us all…

  118. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 13, 2012 12:51 am

    Six Aspects of Denial

    …Actually, I will be so bold as to say these six “aspects” are pretty the only arguments the denial movement has: there is no science that supports their position…

    5 – Appeal to personal freedom – One of the great fears of the denial movements is a loss of freedom. Whether economic or political, they have a paranoid fear that someone (government, scientists, greens, politicians) are going to restrict their right to unlimited consumption or their freedom of speech. But reality is not a democracy. We don’t get to choose the truth about climate change, just as a popular debate about evolution decides the scientific evidence. The denial movement loves to frame this as a “debate” when none exists, claiming they have a right to doubt the science. Of course they do. But it does not mean they are correct…

  119. el gordo permalink
    April 13, 2012 6:32 am

    Global warming has been exaggerated, only a fool would deny it.

  120. el gordo permalink
    April 13, 2012 6:38 am

    ‘The denial movement loves to frame this as a “debate” when none exists, claiming they have a right to doubt the science. Of course they do. But it does not mean they are correct…’

    We are correct and all around the western world this will be tested at the polls, except maybe in the UK where most politicians seem to have their noses in the the renewable trough.

  121. TB Queensland permalink
    April 13, 2012 9:39 am

    Exclusion of fracking technology only weakens a countries energy security

    Trouble with fracking is the actual weakening of the substrata particularly where a water table is involved … there is then a very strong probability that any underground water will be severely contaminated … thus affecting flora, fauna and human endeavour for centuries …

    Australia sits on the biggest underground water reserve in the World …

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Artesian_Basin

    Only Robber Barons would risk damaging this natural resource (arguably our greatest and most valuable) to simply make money …

  122. Tony permalink
    April 13, 2012 9:49 am

    “Only Robber Barons would risk damaging this natural resource (arguably our greatest and most valuable) to simply make money …”

    Yes, and preventing such damage is one of the legitimate roles of government, as difficult as balancing the “triple-bottom-line” might be. 😉 (By the way, the potential for harm to underground water from fracking is currently in dispute.)

  123. TB Queensland permalink
    April 13, 2012 10:13 am

    By the way, the potential for harm to underground water from fracking is currently in dispute

    I’ll bet it is … I can guess who is saying its quite safe!

  124. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 13, 2012 12:41 pm

    I’ll bet it is … I can guess who is saying its quite safe!

    Always a dispute whenever anything stands between industry and a profit.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/conservation/breaches-bring-calls-to-reject-mine-plans-20120412-1wwlo.html#ixzz1rssVqBwh

    …A government audit of exploration licences released last week showed Moolarben had significantly breached its conditions on four occasions – the worst result for any coal or coal seam gas mine in NSW.
    Three incidents related to exploration activity carried out without proper approval.
    A spokesman for Yancoal Australia, the mine’s majority owner and operator, disputed the finding and said the wording of its licence was “ambiguous and open to interpretation”…

  125. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 13, 2012 12:43 pm

    Bob Brown just resigned!

  126. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 13, 2012 2:43 pm

    CO2 Makes Us Hotter

    …Andrew Watson, a fellow of the Royal Society and professor at the University of East Anglia, said: “The paper shows that the increase in atmospheric CO2 was very important and drove the global temperature rise, but it also suggests that the initial trigger for the deglaciation was something different – a slight warming and associated slow-down of the Atlantic Ocean circulation. This caused carbon dioxide to start being degassed from the deep oceans, and that in turn drove the global change.”…

    …This is important for several reasons. For one, some corners of the climate skeptic world have tried to claim that it’s not the CO2 that’s heating up the planet—it’s just that CO2 rates are increasing as the planet warms for other reasons (sun spots, earth’s orbit, God hugging us tighter). But this study affirms that a slight, gradual warming caused the release of CO2, which in turn triggered rapid warming…

    Even Small Temperature Swings Bad If You’re Old, Not White, or Poor

    Higher social class predicts increased unethical behavior

  127. el gordo permalink
    April 13, 2012 6:21 pm

    ‘TWO of the most controversial issues that will face the Gillard government in the coming months — the allocation of water in the Murray-Darling Basin and the carbon tax — have something in common. They arise from legislation based on the commonwealth’s foreign affairs powers and international environmental conventions entered into under that power.’

    Jennifer Marohasy

  128. el gordo permalink
    April 13, 2012 9:08 pm

    Amusing and informative post from Tasmin Edwards on communicating CC science.

    http://allmodelsarewrong.com/how-to-be-engaging/

  129. April 13, 2012 9:59 pm

    *guffaw…

  130. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 14, 2012 12:26 am

    A small part of mr brown’s good-bye message:

    …The Greens are a logical response to the post industrial age human community’s need to secure the biosphere, biodiversity, equal opportunity and long-term economic, employment and lifestyle security. Greens political philosophy will grow and spread regardless of any individual. I arrived in Tasmania shortly after the Greens established in 1972 and I will leave before we Greens inevitably gain much stronger roles in governance in Tasmania, Australia and beyond.

    Out of elected office I will continue to enjoy being part of this optimistic and enlightened new politics and tangling with its often bleak and recriminating critics. The future is Green.

    My deep respect, gratitude and best wishes to you all,

    Bob
    p.s. I hope to see you on a more personal level as I visit your state or territory in the coming months.

    Isn’t he lovely

    Thanks bob, your personal integrity, your principled, humble and modest determination to bring about change and a better world has been a beacon of hope, inspiration and encouragement for others to come. You’ll be deeply missed, enjoy a well earned retirement with Paul. You have done more than enough.

    the future is green!

  131. JAWS permalink
    April 14, 2012 1:49 am

    KL

    That post of yours should be written on the
    “induce vomiting ” label of every household
    cleaning
    Chemical”

  132. el gordo permalink
    April 14, 2012 6:50 am

    The Greens have been hovering around 13% in popularity and are likely to retain those hard core zealots going to the next election.

  133. el gordo permalink
    April 14, 2012 7:10 am

    “If ever the Greens were needed in Australian politics in public life in redefining the debate in Australia, it’s now,” Senator Milne said. “I’m going out there as a country person to say to other country people it’s time the Greens and country and rural and regional Australian really worked together.”

    Oddly enough she is partly right, but they will have to drop the CO2 tax before discussions can begin.

  134. el gordo permalink
    April 14, 2012 1:01 pm

    The CC science is widening the debate on natural variability and the Little Ice Age…from a new paper by Miller et al. (found at Watts).

    ‘Here we present precisely dated records of ice-cap growth from Arctic Canada and Iceland showing that LIA summer cold and ice growth began abruptly between 1275 and 1300 AD, followed by a substantial intensification 1430– 1455 AD. Intervals of sudden ice growth coincide with two of the most volcanically perturbed half centuries of the past millennium.

    ‘A transient climate model simulation……..’

    Models predicting the future are useless….unless we can run them back in time.

    For me its further proof that the LIA was not a Bond Event…which as you all know is due.

  135. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 14, 2012 7:45 pm

    Oddly enough she is partly right, but they will have to drop the CO2 tax before discussions can begin.

    Don’t know about that. We hear a lot of screaming from a very vocal minority, the old white men who can’t seem to think beyond what they have always known and are terrified of any change or progess. They will eventually be pushed out of the way if they keep obstructing. There are a lot of people who care about the environment and society more than dollars. The sooner we get rid of negative gearing the better, how much would flow back into the economy if that rort were killed off? There are also a lot of people who do think that the polluters should be paying much more than they do now, mining only employs 1.3%% of the workforce and it’s most of them that we are hearing from. The people that live in the towns that are being destroyed by FIFO are none too happy.

    The Greens have been hovering around 13% in popularity and are likely to retain those hard core zealots going to the next election.

    I expect uncle bob will spend some time gazing at and photographing the beautiful tasmanian wilderness and re-charging his batteries, but somehow I think he will be up to some campaigning pre election.

    “The future is green”

    “I live in a society not an economy”

    [christine milne said similar the other day, but we know we heard it first from a retired gent in qld],

  136. April 14, 2012 7:56 pm

    The victory laps of the anti-zealots are wishful & premature, KL.

    The issue is far from settled, but I think the carbon tax is political suicide, nonetheless.

  137. Tony permalink
    April 14, 2012 8:01 pm

    Maybe Saint Bob can see the writing on the wall: “Who? Me?

  138. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 14, 2012 8:08 pm

    The issue is far from settled, but I think the carbon tax is political suicide, nonetheless

    I think the young ones will come through. Abbott isn’t their pin-up boy and they’d likely prefer Christine over Julia. Be nice if Gen X could get over themseves and actually care about anyone or anything but themselves and how many material possessions they can accumulate!

  139. Tony permalink
    April 14, 2012 8:15 pm

    I think Gen X should purchase as many or as few material posessions as makes them happy.

  140. el gordo permalink
    April 14, 2012 8:15 pm

    ‘There are a lot of people who care about the environment and society more than dollars.’

    Most Australians care about the environment, not just the left.

  141. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 14, 2012 8:16 pm

    of course I generalise re gen x, some of them are the most thoughtful, generous, social and environmentally aware people that I know!

  142. el gordo permalink
    April 14, 2012 8:23 pm

    Matt Ridley thinks the impact of CO2 on coral reefs is exaggerated.

    http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/coral-reefs.aspx

  143. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 14, 2012 8:24 pm

    Most Australians care about the environment, not just the left.

    Now where did I say that only the left cared?

    Do they care enough to pay a carbon tax for it?

  144. el gordo permalink
    April 14, 2012 8:30 pm

    Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant and will not cause catastrophic global warming, so I would like them to spend taxpayer dollars on some serious environmental issues.

    Like pulling down the barrages at the lower lakes and returning it to estuarine conditions.

  145. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 14, 2012 8:33 pm

    The issue is far from settled, but I think the carbon tax is political suicide, nonetheless.

    Very likely tb, but if you’re going to go down, you might as well be courageous and go down fighting for something worthwhile, the greater good, doing what is right.

  146. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 14, 2012 8:35 pm

    Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant and will not cause catastrophic global warming,

    So you’ve said many times before, unfortunately you are wrong.

  147. el gordo permalink
    April 14, 2012 8:48 pm

    ‘…unfortunately you are wrong.’

    The electorate think you are wrong and are voting accordingly. Do you really believe they would risk future generations, their grandchildren’s future, if they thought there was any truth in this yarn about CO2 causing global warming?

    The sky is not falling Kitty.

  148. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 14, 2012 9:34 pm

    The electorate think you are wrong and are voting accordingly…

    That doesn’t make them right, just misinformed, lazy thinking or gullibly taken in by the propaganda campaign that vested interests have funded to deliberately create a dispute/debate when there really is none.

    Do you really believe they would risk future generations, their grandchildren’s future, if they thought there was any truth in this yarn about CO2 causing global warming?

    Yes, if a carbon tax is the reason they will vote for Abbott.

  149. el gordo permalink
    April 14, 2012 9:52 pm

    The propaganda campaign to convince people that sea level is rising has been funded by governments with the assistance of scientists and media.

    I am from Labor’s left and will vote for the agrarian socialists to dismantle this useless tax.

  150. el gordo permalink
    April 15, 2012 7:43 am

    “there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead”

    Julia Gillard

  151. Tony permalink
    April 15, 2012 8:18 am

    “The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it.  If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth:  if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error.” ~ John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859

  152. Meta permalink
    April 15, 2012 10:08 am

    (Yeah, but J.S. Mill is a Cultural Marxist.)

  153. Tony permalink
    April 15, 2012 10:32 am

    What a pity modern “social liberals” don’t subscribe to Mill’s thoughts on free speech.

  154. el gordo permalink
    April 15, 2012 11:13 am

    J S Mill knew nothing of Marx or Marxism that I can see, yet there is the possibility that his ideas benefitted Marx.

    Don’t know.

  155. Tom R permalink
    April 15, 2012 11:21 am

    “I don’t rule out the possibility of legislating a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, a market-based mechanism,”

    Julia Gillard

  156. el gordo permalink
    April 15, 2012 12:53 pm

    Julia is opportunistic.

  157. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 15, 2012 1:03 pm

    What a pity modern “social liberals” don’t subscribe to Mill’s thoughts on free speech.

    What a pity the deniers won’t be around when their propaganda ‘paid opinions’ turn out to be deliberately misleading, false and younger generations look for financial compensation.

  158. el gordo permalink
    April 15, 2012 2:17 pm

    Kitty is a watermelon, or perhaps more likely deluded by watermelon propaganda.

  159. James of North Melbourne permalink
    April 15, 2012 2:35 pm

    I wonder who Kittylitter thinks gets paid more, the proponents of the theory or the skeptics.

  160. Tony permalink
    April 15, 2012 2:44 pm

    Whether you think Ms Gillard lied about the carbon tax (most Australians) or don’t (rusted-on Labor barrackers, like Tom R) is academic. Labor will get hammered at the next election because of it.

  161. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 15, 2012 3:32 pm

    Tom R, and a range of others, don’t have a very good track record in identifying the lack of political integrity.
    *’No carbon tax’ isn’t a lie.
    *Rudd’s leadership ambitions is all a media beat-up.
    *Thomson has no case to answer.
    *There’s nothing wrong with union political affiliation.

  162. Tom R permalink
    April 15, 2012 7:30 pm

    This apparently is how our media work now. Accuse someone for months over an alleged lie, then go checking for facts. Fucking dipshits

  163. Tony permalink
    April 15, 2012 8:35 pm

    Trouble is, Tom R, people hate the idea of a great big new carbon tax, whether the nasty ol’ media said Julia lied or not. (I personally think she did, by the way.)

    The. Electorate. Does. Not. Want. It.

    Capisce?

  164. el gordo permalink
    April 15, 2012 8:58 pm

    TomR wants the tax because he’s worried about sea level rise and who can argue with that?

    The electorate cannot see the oceans rising, but the warmists are convinced its happening, so its obvious the guvmint has backed the wrong horse.

    The political cycle is relatively short.

  165. James of North Melbourne permalink
    April 15, 2012 9:31 pm

    Funny….I follow Latika on Twitter and I’m not aware of her saying for months that Gillard lied.

    Shit way to illustrate a point, TomR. And by the way, Gillard did lie.

  166. James of North Melbourne permalink
    April 15, 2012 9:46 pm

    To be fair, Gordo, TomR is also worried about the Great Barrier Reef. He should be comforted to know that a report recently released says the GBR will actually be ok.

    I did mention a year or so ago that it looked to me that it was ok, but not being a scientist, of course TomR did the responsible thing and joined in the chorus of ridicule. I’m sure Marcel Kincaid will also be relieved. I recall he was quite passionate about the GBR’s impending doom.

  167. Tom R permalink
    April 15, 2012 10:48 pm

    http://blogs.abc.net.au/drumroll/2011/03/the-anti-carbon-tax-rally-tweet-by-tweet.html

    Copying and pasting comments without verification of their accuracy is piss poor journalism, and if she is going to pass this shit on in the name of journalism unchallenged, then I put it at her feet. She’s a fucking journalist (or meant to be) not a facebook page.

    Love to see that report too. You have misinterpreted every other paper passed your way Ypur history on the GBR is a new low even for denialists.

  168. James of North Melbourne permalink
    April 16, 2012 7:50 am

    She is a journalist and was reporting the carbon tax rally. I dont get your issue with that.

    I’ll link the report shortly.

  169. Tom R permalink
    April 16, 2012 9:17 am

    repeating allegations verbatim, as a reporter, without an ‘alleged’ implies agreement and gives veracity to the statement.

    She has been playing fast and loose with this ‘alleged’ lie, taking it as gospel, and now, months later, wants to question its veracity. She is the embodiment of our current crop of journos. pig lazy

    http://twitpic.com/4cauqj

    http://twicsy.com/i/uT8wA

  170. James of North Melbourne permalink
    April 16, 2012 9:21 am

    Rubbish, TomR. She “tweets live” major political events such as Question Time, protests, speeches and the like. Reporting what is said by protesters is exactly that….reporting.

  171. Tom R permalink
    April 16, 2012 9:37 am

    The good news from the research, says Professor Hughes, is that complete reef wipeouts appear unlikely due to temperature and pH alone.

    It’s all OK then, cos parts of the reef might survive. ffs

  172. Tom R permalink
    April 16, 2012 9:40 am

    MORGAN PRATCHETT: Even if we just leave some of the corals, we could have potentially devastating effects for the fish that live on reefs.

    http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2012/s3477154.htm

    Still, snactymates say it’s all cool, so nothing to worry about here

  173. James of North Melbourne permalink
    April 16, 2012 2:02 pm

    When are those damn reefs going to hurry up and die, TomR? It is just so inconvenient for the hysterics. The world was supposed to have all changed by now, before the passage of time exposed the bullshit.

  174. Tom R permalink
    April 16, 2012 2:05 pm

    The world was supposed to have all changed by now

    now who’s sounding frantic and hysterical.

    You know when you are on a slide when you resort to MSU 😉

    It’s actually a bit of a trend amongst deniers 😆

  175. James of North Melbourne permalink
    April 16, 2012 2:42 pm

    What’s MSU?

  176. Tom R permalink
    April 16, 2012 2:57 pm

    MakingShitUp

  177. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 16, 2012 8:16 pm

    Regardless, it doesn’t change the fact that she’s duplicitous.

  178. Meta permalink
    April 22, 2012 6:32 pm

    (Given all the other exciting things happening lately, I almost missed noticing that James Delingpole is available, tomorrow only and only for Adelaidean Chapters, to spruik his latest book at the CLF‘s new CANdo headquarters.)

  179. TB Queensland permalink
    April 22, 2012 6:46 pm

    Regardless, it doesn’t change the fact that she’s duplicitous.

    There’s more than one! 😯

  180. el gordo permalink
    April 24, 2012 8:29 am

    James Lovelock climbs down.

    “The world has not warmed up very much since the millennium. Twelve years is a reasonable time… it (the temperature) has stayed almost constant, whereas it should have been rising — carbon dioxide is rising, no question about that.”

    He’s the Gaia Man.

  181. el gordo permalink
    April 24, 2012 5:06 pm

    Readfearn still fighting hard for the warmists.

    http://www.readfearn.com/2012/04/i-can-change-your-mind-about/

  182. el gordo permalink
    April 25, 2012 8:01 am

    A new paper out by Svensmark is already raising eyebrows…sea level is determined by supernova.

    http://www.ras.org.uk/news-and-press/219-news-2012/2117-did-exploding-stars-help-life-on-earth-to-thrive

  183. el gordo permalink
    April 25, 2012 8:59 am

  184. el gordo permalink
    April 26, 2012 5:06 pm

    There has been much concern that warmer temperatures, because of he greenhouse effect, is melting Antarctica.

    NASA says its the warm ocean currents.

    http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/currents-ice-loss.html

  185. JAWS permalink
    April 26, 2012 11:00 pm

    One knows they are on the correct side when on Q & A a tree hugger
    tweets that the last time they looked at their power bill coal fired
    electricity was not cheap.

    Obviously they didn’t get as far as the renewable subsidy line. It
    might have changed their opinion

  186. el gordo permalink
    April 27, 2012 12:59 pm

    With Antarctic ice melt appearing to be natural, we also discover the Arctic is behaving normally.

    At this point in time there is no need for alarm

  187. el gordo permalink
    April 28, 2012 4:17 pm

    Kitty your comments on the other thread are one long rant…wordy, insular, arrogant and pompous…a true barracker for the cause.

    It’s because of ‘people like you’ that I have deserted Labor.

  188. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 28, 2012 4:52 pm

    It’s because of ‘people like you’ that I have deserted Labor.

    Is that a little dummy spit because you got pinged for taking liberties throughout every thread on the blog, despite there being a dedicated CC thread? C’mon now el gordo you’ve been taking advantage of everyone – others may disagree with me and they will have their say I’m sure. I really don’t know what your problem is, you seem to want it all ways.

    It’s because of “people like you” that I’m sick of the entire discussion. Do you think putting discredited crap on each thread will convince me to become a denier? Do you think that I care more for the wealthy fat man’s economy than I do people and the environment? I don’t.

    Amazing and strange, I’m the blame for how you vote? I would have thought you seriously looked at things like policy, practices etc

    And I don’t even vote Labor! I cannot comprehend your reasoning.

  189. el gordo permalink
    April 28, 2012 4:54 pm

    ‘Jennifer Marohasy reports that according to Jo Nova, the video interview with the skeptic side mainly ended up on the cutting floor:

    “We did 4 hours of footage at our house, and they showed not one single point I made, not one answer to Anna Rose’s questions. I repeated my favourite lines about 28 million weather balloons, 3000 ocean buoys off by heart at least 4 times [which show no global warming and therefore a mismatch between reality and theory].

    ‘Obviously everything I said was too ‘dangerous’. But we have the full tape of the whole event, so sooner or later the world will see the parts that the ABC deemed to be not ‘interesting’ to the Australian public. So all in all, pretty much as we expected. They trimmed it down to the point where it’s tame, they gave the alarmists the last word (they always do)…”

  190. el gordo permalink
    April 28, 2012 4:57 pm

    ‘And I don’t even vote Labor!’

    You must be a watermelon?

  191. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 28, 2012 5:11 pm

    You must be a watermelon?

    I like eating watermelon.

    I am a person who is unhappy with the quality of politics in australia, unhappy with the calibre of politicians that are foisted upon us and the service provided by all political parties.

    I live in hope of something better to come.

  192. el gordo permalink
    April 28, 2012 5:30 pm

    Here’s a politician that has become the laffing stock of the world….as reb said, the hilarity.

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4283955/Aussie-minister-takes-brown-nosing-to-a-new-level.html

  193. el gordo permalink
    April 28, 2012 5:55 pm

    ‘I am a person who is unhappy with the quality of politics in australia,’

    A large majority of Australians agree with you, unfortunately democracy breeds mediocrity.

  194. Tony permalink
    April 28, 2012 6:41 pm

    Won’t ‘you people’ stop talking politics on the global warming dangerous climate change ‘CO2 and You’ thread? 🙄

  195. el gordo permalink
    April 28, 2012 6:51 pm

    They seemed to be interlinked, Tony. I blame Julia for everything.

  196. Tony permalink
    April 28, 2012 6:56 pm

    Yes I knoe, el gordo. Climate change is a political football issue, so it should be a legitimate topic on a political blog. 😉

  197. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 28, 2012 7:25 pm

    Yes I knoe, el gordo. Climate change is a political football issue, so it should be a legitimate topic on a political blog.

    So what’s stopping you two?…go for it…as much as you like…the floor is yours…knock yourselves out!

  198. el gordo permalink
    April 28, 2012 7:27 pm

    It’s a very sensitive issue, a question of mass delusion, which is not meant as an insult to my associates here, but it just so happens that a large number of people have been brain washed.

    Nick Minchin on Anna Rose.

    ‘I’m sure that I did not change her mind, but I hope she saw that not all sceptics are mad, bad and dangerous; that there remains a lively scientific debate about the drivers of climate change, and that scaremongering about global warming is backfiring on the warmists.’

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/all-can-agree-on-green-energy-but-the-rest-is-alarmist-20120426-1xnv3.html#ixzz1tKESp4q1

  199. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 28, 2012 8:00 pm

    …but it just so happens that a large number of people have been brain washed…

    Yes, we call them sceptics and deniers, those who would rather believe deliberately placed false messages from industry than decades of honest toil over the issue. I also think that they are the people that believe they are fighting for a western civilisation that they know and love, even if it destroys everything around it. A superior, dominant whitey belief.

    I Can Engage In A Flawed Debate About Climate Change

    …In both instances, I said that in my view the show’s format was flawed in that it would put non-peer-reviewed, pseudo science conducted by largely unqualified non-experts alongside decades of genuine peer reviewed scientific research. It might make for engaging telly, but it creates a false sense of balance.
    If I were a climate sceptic activist or a fossil fuel lobbyist designing a format for a TV show, this show is what I’d probably come up with…

    There is no peer reviewed research from the sceptics to be found [that hasn’t been immediately discredited]. So why pretend they have an equal or even valid argument, why give them the O2, it’s what they want?

    oh wait…

    from a recipient of Heartland funding:

    …In 2009, Professor Carter did actually manage to get a climate change paper he had co-written published in a peer-reviewed journal, to test if his science “stands or falls” in it’s own right.
    The paper concluded that natural variation was the chief cause of global warming. The journal later published a response to Professor Bob Carter’s original research, from a team of well known climate change scientists.
    Their assessment? The conclusions of Bob Carter and his two co-researchers were “not supported by their analysis or any physical theory presented in their paper”…

    http://www.readfearn.com/2012/02/bob-carter-responds-to-heartland-leak/

  200. Tony permalink
    April 28, 2012 8:08 pm

    Checking the data against the models seems like a good idea . . .

  201. el gordo permalink
    April 28, 2012 8:37 pm

    CO2 is noice for wheat and rice….peer reviewed.

    http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2012/04/20/for-wheat-and-rice-co2-is-nice/

  202. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 29, 2012 11:40 am

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/pf/63223311.html

    Global Warming May Boost Crop Yields, Study Says

    But the effect may be a double-edged sword; the increase in yield appears to be linked to a decrease in the nutritional value of these crops

    …The increase in productivity does not make up for the fall in nutritional value of the crops, said Loladze. “Plants provide 84 percent of worldwide calorie intake, but they also are the major source of essential nutrients,” he said.

    …”The surprise is that nitrogen levels actually go down” with elevated carbon dioxide levels, reducing the nutritional value of these foods, he said. Nitrogen is most commonly present in the form of protein…

    Loladze’s own research has shown that levels of other micronutrients such as iron, zinc, and iodine may also fall in carbon dioxide enriched species. High carbon dioxide levels may result in less “essential [dietary] elements per calorie,” he said…

  203. el gordo permalink
    May 2, 2012 9:11 pm

    The UK has had its wettest April in 100 years. Needless to say the Met didn’t see it coming.

    There is a serious side to this, but you won’t hear it from me.

  204. May 4, 2012 4:42 pm

    Seal yourself in a confined space, have the oxygen evacuated & carbon dioxide pumped in…if you weren’t dead after that you’d be able to retract the non-sensical claim about CO2.

  205. May 4, 2012 4:43 pm

    Sorry, snacty, but I don’t need remedial science lessons.

    I’m sure that you’re not suggesting that I’m unaware of the fundamentals of respiration.

    That moronbyte about CO2 being ‘harmless’ is just derivative claptrap.

  206. May 4, 2012 4:47 pm

    Comments like…”CO2 is harmless”…serve to remind me that the anti-zealots are just as prone to making exaggerated pronouncements to advance their fanaticism as those they accuse of being alarmists on the other side.

    The whole debate is ideologically polarised & as such is misleading & convoluted. Rational discussion of it is almost impossible after the last few years of hyperbole & smear & counter-smear from each ‘side’.

  207. Tony permalink
    May 4, 2012 5:14 pm

    CO2 is harmless under normal circumstances. Just like a screwdriver or a box of matches.

  208. May 4, 2012 5:25 pm

    The Carbon Stampede…

  209. May 4, 2012 5:26 pm

    It’s just part of the zealots’ phrase book.

    Their fingerprint is just as distinguishable as any alarmist.

  210. May 4, 2012 5:28 pm

    “CO2 is harmless under normal circumstances. Just like a screwdriver or a box of matches.”

    …or a muslim, or a communist, or a (insert squirtophobia here)…

  211. Tony permalink
    May 4, 2012 5:39 pm

    Or a death-metal freak.

  212. el gordo permalink
    May 4, 2012 5:47 pm

    We should be able to tell fairly soon whether CO2 is the main driver of climate or Sol.

    Solar cycle 24 is expected to be the lowest in 100 years and, as I remarked to my colleagues at the cafe, we should see icebergs of Titanic proportions in the North Atlantic within a decade.

    If this happens the warmists will say its because of global warming.

  213. May 4, 2012 5:47 pm

    Who’s a freak?

  214. May 4, 2012 5:48 pm

    You lot squirt about death metal too?! 😯

    I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

  215. Tony permalink
    May 4, 2012 5:52 pm

    “You lot.” 🙄

  216. JAWS permalink
    May 4, 2012 5:57 pm

    Combet names our major criminal enterprises (the Big Polluters)………………….you know the guys that are going to pay all that filfthy money to the government who pay it to the poor which will lift up the poverty stricken from their rags to new found riches.

    http://www.cleanenergyregulator.gov.au/Carbon-Pricing-Mechanism/Public-information-databases/LEPID-for-2012-13-Financial-year/Pages/default.aspx

  217. May 4, 2012 5:59 pm

    By “You lot”, of course I mean ‘everyone except death metal freaks’. I doubt that death metal is held in very high regard by the moral majority on either the left or the right.

    It’s lucky they don’t pay much attention to it or the current government may have tried to ban it to appease wowsers of all stripes.
    Every now & again someone rattles Bolt’s cage by bringing unsavoury lyrics to his attention so he can do an indignant screed (we’re all supposed to become engorged over his operas, I suppose)…but apart from that it’s generally off the radar.

    * Die Antwoord definitely don’y exhibit any freakishness

  218. May 4, 2012 6:02 pm

    Just checked & sure enough, my employer made the blacklist.

    Felon# 65000032333

    I’m heartbroken. I do evil in their name….almost every day .

  219. TB Queensland permalink
    May 4, 2012 6:05 pm

    Spread the wealth! LOL! 😆 the sky is breaking … the sky is breaking …

    I’m heartbroken. I do evil in their name….almost every day .

    I fkn knew it! I’ve listened to the shit you call “music” …

  220. May 4, 2012 6:11 pm

    Cattle Decapitation are deep, TB. It’s not their fault if you can’t get your head/ears around it. 😉

    On the carbon front, my employer is currently breaking ground on the co-gen gas turbine & I’ll be off to Melbourne (of all places 😯 ) for a training junket later in the year.
    They are clearly motivated by knowing that they’re on that list of polluters.

  221. el gordo permalink
    May 4, 2012 6:15 pm

    The Bering Sea Ice has reached an extent never before seen in history, but you won’t hear about it in the msm.

  222. Tony permalink
    May 4, 2012 8:09 pm

    “Methane hydrates are the largest reserve of hydrocarbons in the planetary crust. The methane hydrates in sediment considered part of U.S. territory alone could supply U.S. natural gas needs for 1000 years. So far humanity has not devised a process to economically harvest this immense energy wealth. Today’s DOE announcement may point the way to a new era in abundant energy to build out a bigger and better world economy.”

    http://newenergyandfuel.com/http:/newenergyandfuel/com/2012/05/03/huge-natural-gas-from-methane-hydrates-process-developed/

  223. el gordo permalink
    May 4, 2012 8:30 pm

    Across the gap, in the land of the long white cloud, the carbon market is in strife.

    ‘The Government is reworking its books in the wake of the carbon price collapse.
    In December, Carbon News reported that Government expectations of a surplus from the Emissions Trading Scheme were wildly over-estimated on current prices.’

    Does Julia know about this?

  224. el gordo permalink
    May 4, 2012 8:34 pm

    ‘…a new era in abundant energy to build out a bigger and better world economy.”

    Peace in our time and for thousands of generations to follow.

  225. Tony permalink
    May 4, 2012 8:51 pm

    ‘Global warming has not adversely impacted India’s agriculture production which has been increasing over the last five years, the Rajya Sabha was informed on Friday. “In the last five years … wheat, rice, sugarcane and cotton production has not dropped, but increased,” agriculture minister Sharad Pawar said during Question Hour. “In fact,” he said, “except for Nigeria, no negative impact of global warming has been reported globally so far”.’

    http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/economy/global-warming-has-not-impacted-indian-crops-pawar_697702.html

  226. el gordo permalink
    May 4, 2012 9:40 pm

    The price on carbon has Oakeshott worried and he wants a “reconvening of the multi-party climate change committee and… renegotiate some of the aspects.”

    “Anyone who follows the international carbon price can see that the floor price in 2015 has the real potential of being in play – that is a risk to investment in Australia and a risk to the taxpayer in Australia,” he said.’

    Milne wants no change, but Oakeshott may swap sides over this and bring the guvmint down.

  227. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 5, 2012 12:06 am

    Oakeshott is a complete dill, who is out of touch with his electorate.

    This flip is just a panic move by him, he’s finished anyway.

  228. el gordo permalink
    May 5, 2012 7:05 am

    ‘…he’s finished anyway.’

    A drowning man will clutch at straws. I agree that he has been a dill, but this is his chance to reinvent himself.

  229. TB Queensland permalink
    May 5, 2012 8:39 am

    They are clearly motivated by knowing that they’re on that list of polluters.</i.

    Don't say things like that! The government might be right! 😯

  230. TB Queensland permalink
    May 5, 2012 8:39 am

    Oakeshott is a complete dill, who is out of touch with his electorate.

    Could you name me one pollie, just one … who IS?

  231. el gordo permalink
    May 5, 2012 10:00 am

    ‘EU carbon permits have plunged 80 percent since peaking at 34.40 euros ($45.17) a metric ton in 2008…’

    ….Bloomburg…

    Reminds me of the South Sea Bubble.

  232. el gordo permalink
    May 6, 2012 3:42 pm

    The UK Met is taking an each way bet on summer…after failing to predict the wettest April in 100 years.

    ‘The probability that UK-average rainfall for May-June-July will fall into the driest of our five categories is around 15%, whilst the probability that it will fall into the wettest of our five categories is around 30% (the 1971-2000 climatological probability for each of these categories is 20%).’

  233. Meta permalink
    May 6, 2012 4:38 pm

    (Yes, apparently it’s difficult anticipating which way the Sun will g(l)o(w) until the probabilities resolve themselves and manifest: Sun may soon have four poles, say researchers. Still, ‘don’t worry, we are not in drought and there is probably no bus, anyway’.)

  234. el gordo permalink
    May 6, 2012 5:12 pm

    The return to a Maunder meme is quite likely and in the UK there are indications this is happening.

    Cool wet summers are a symptom of a shift to colder climes.

  235. el gordo permalink
    May 7, 2012 7:33 am

    From Sid Maher in hate media.

    ‘NEW research predicts Australia’s carbon price could collapse to about $4 a tonne by 2020 and that the scheme, as designed, risks failing to support either renewable energy power development or the switch from coal to gas needed to slash the nation’s emissions.

    ‘A draft report prepared by Bloomberg New Energy Finance for the Australian Industry Greenhouse Network, which represents some of Australia’s biggest companies in the climate change policy debate, says the scheme’s strong linkages to the international carbon market, where prices are expected to remain low, will mean average carbon prices could fall sharply after the domestic floor price is removed in 2018.’

    This is what Oakeshott has been going on about and I fully expect Julia to make some alterations by the end of the month.

  236. Tony permalink
    May 7, 2012 9:18 pm

    ‘Did dinosaurs cause climate change? Huge creatures may have contributed to their own demise because they produced so much flatulence, say scientists’

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2140323/Dinosaurs-produced-flatulence-force-climate-change.html#ixzz1uBKE13Dt

  237. Meta permalink
    May 8, 2012 1:15 am

    “The arguments for and against AGW in the recent reviews may inspire a deeper understanding of the scientific method and the pitfalls of cherry-picking data and use of irrelevant ad hominem argument.” ~ Michael Asten, Science hijacked at school level, The Australian, 08 May 2012.

  238. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 8, 2012 1:48 am

    thanks meta

    Dept of Climate Change rebuts Plimer’s book for sceptic kids

    “Many of the questions and answers in Professor Plimer’s book are misleading and are based on inaccurate or selective interpretation of the science. The answers and comments provided in this document are intended to provide clear and accurate answers to Professor Plimer’s questions. The answers are based on up-to-date peer reviewed science, and have been reviewed by a number of Australian climate scientists.”

  239. el gordo permalink
    May 8, 2012 7:27 am

    I’m all for discussing the science in the class room and the msm.

    My business partner has dinner with a bunch of school teachers every Friday night and I used to go along… until it dawned on me they are all brain washed.

    This is easy to discern, they know nothing about the science of climate change and accept the relevant authorities version of events, instead of grappling with the fundamentals themselves.

    AO’s mind will never change on this issue, but I have faith in Meta’s intellectual depth and hope one day soon the science on CC will become abundantly clear to him.

  240. el gordo permalink
    May 8, 2012 7:53 am

    ‘The available empirical data indicates Labor began losing support, and Julia Gillard her authority, following the decision announced in February last year to introduce a carbon tax.

    ‘… the decision represented the most significant breaking of an election promise in recent memory.’

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/sexist-abuse-of-pm-fits-a-general-deterioration-in-political-discourse-20120507-1y8yj.html#ixzz1uDrqx3q0

    This is how the electorate see the issue and will punish Labor severely, leaving the Coalition to dismantle the tax and green initiatives. This is political reality….

    Unfortunately with have lost a generation of young people and they will need to be debriefed… with humour.

  241. el gordo permalink
    May 8, 2012 7:55 am

    ‘we have’

  242. TB Queensland permalink
    May 8, 2012 8:07 am

    Those scientific models are “awesome” … whoever allowed climate scienists to play with computer software needs to be fired!

    The researchers calculated that the prehistoric beasts pumped out more than 520 million tons (472 million tonnes) of methane a year – enough to warm the planet and hasten their own eventual demise. Until now, an asteroid strike and volcanic activity around 65 million years ago had seemed the most likely cause of their extinction.

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/sci-tech/dinosaurs-farted-their-way-to-extinction-british-scientists-say/story-fn5fsgyc-1226349319043

  243. el gordo permalink
    May 8, 2012 8:34 am

    Dinosaur farts don’t explain other evidence which suggest a large rock plummeted to earth.

    Anyway, closer to our own time, ‘an abrupt cooling in Europe together with an increase in humidity and particularly in windiness coincided with a sustained reduction in solar activity 2800 years ago.

    ‘Scientists from the German Research Centre for Geosciences GFZ in collaboration with Swedish and Dutch colleagues provide evidence for a direct solar-climate linkage on centennial timescales.’

    It’s the big shiny thing in the sky causing the trouble with our air con and I would just like to add that roughly every 1470 years our planet experience a Bond Event…due about now.

    The Denialati appreciate the hard work by the warmists in drawing the public’s attention to climate change, it may help avoid mass panic with the approaching disaster of global cooling.

  244. TB Queensland permalink
    May 8, 2012 6:07 pm

    Sorry, egg, didn’t mean to fire you up and get you all excited for debate … I’m a bit like, sreb, (I think) I really don’t give a shit fart …

  245. Tony permalink
    May 9, 2012 8:46 am

    ‘America is in the midst of a mining boom that is propelling it towards energy self-sufficiency. The country’s reliance on Middle Eastern oil may soon be a thing of the past.’

    http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/gassed-up-in-the-usa/221/

  246. TB Queensland permalink
    May 9, 2012 8:54 am

    The country’s reliance on Middle Eastern oil may soon be a thing of the past.’

    So they’ll only need to go to war with their own government instead of fkn around with other people’s … 🙄

  247. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 9, 2012 1:28 pm

    Here is a devastating article on climate “science” and the deceptions at the heart of it.

    Essentially McIntyre, who deserves credit for exposing the scientific defects in the original (and now discredited) hockey stick graph has, now that his FOI application has been successful, shown that the sons of hockey stick (aka the spaghetti graphs) are equally defective.

    The ‘scientist’ involved in this episode explained that he didn’t have access to broader data (which showed no hockey stick increase in recent temperatures) and was rushing to meet a deadline. Hence he had to rely on a much smaller dataset which conveniently produced such an increase. It turns out that had the much larger dataset for more than a year before his deadline and, in fact, he had compiled that data. Junk science at its best.

    The article also demonstrates the failings of the Muir Russell enquiry to even seriously investigate this issue. A classic case of base politics supporting junk science.

  248. el gordo permalink
    May 9, 2012 8:58 pm

    A brilliant quote from C.S. Lewis which epitomises how I feel about this environmentalist tyranny.

    ‘Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.’

  249. el gordo permalink
    May 12, 2012 8:53 am

    ‘..the people who are most vocal in denying human responsibility for the disastrous effects of climate change are mostly male.’

    John Bell … from Bishop Hill

  250. Tony permalink
    May 12, 2012 10:23 am

    Has Deltoid conceded defeat?

    http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/

  251. el gordo permalink
    May 12, 2012 11:16 am

    Tim might be on sabbatical.

  252. Tony permalink
    May 13, 2012 6:13 am

    Nature: Beware the creeping cracks of bias

    ‘How can we explain such pervasive bias? Like a magnetic field that pulls iron filings into alignment, a powerful cultural belief is aligning multiple sources of scientific bias in the same direction. The belief is that progress in science means the continual production of positive findings. All involved benefit from positive results, and from the appearance of progress. Scientists are rewarded both intellectually and professionally, science administrators are empowered and the public desire for a better world is answered. The lack of incentives to report negative results, replicate experiments or recognize inconsistencies, ambiguities and uncertainties is widely appreciated — but the necessary cultural change is incredibly difficult to achieve.’

    http://www.nature.com/news/beware-the-creeping-cracks-of-bias-1.10600

  253. Tony permalink
    May 13, 2012 6:35 am

    “Interview” by Jon Faine of James Delingpole, where Faine denies being a greenie, and asks Delingpole not to personalise the issue. Mildly amusing 😉 . . .

    http://www.abc.net.au/local/audio/2012/04/27/3490471.htm?site=melbourne&program=melbourne_mornings

  254. el gordo permalink
    May 13, 2012 7:20 am

    Some of you may have heard that the ‘death threats’ allegedly made by sceptics against ANU academics was a ‘beat up’.

    ‘AFTER triggering a global news event with reports about death threats against climate scientists, the ABC and Fairfax Media are under investigation by Media Watch after a central plank supporting their reports was found to be non-existent.

    ‘Before the flaws in their reports were revealed, their versions of the truth had been picked up by Britain’s The Guardian and the scientific journal Nature.’

  255. el gordo permalink
    May 14, 2012 12:10 pm

    “If one imagines a length of the Earth’s atmosphere one kilometre long, 780 metres of this are made up of nitrogen, 210 are oxygen and 10 metres are water vapour (the largest greenhouse gas). Just 0.38 of a metre is carbon dioxide, to which human emissions contribute one millimetre. Australia’s share of this is 0.015 of a millimetre, the breadth of a human hair………”

    Christopher Booker

    This is serious and Julia should be told.

  256. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 14, 2012 1:26 pm

    Anything to declare, Mr Booker? We need transparency about Heartland

    Why libertarians must deny climate change, in one short take

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2012/jan/06/why-libertarians-must-deny-climage-change

    …Their property rights are absolute and cannot be intruded upon by the state or by anyone else. Any interference with, or damage to, the value of their property without their consent – even by taxation – is an unwarranted infringement. This, with local variations, is the basic philosophy of the Republican candidates, the Tea Party movement, the lobby groups that call themselves “free market thinktanks” and much of the new right in the UK.

    It is a pitiless, one-sided, mechanical view of the world, which elevates the rights of property over everything else, meaning that those who possess the most property end up with great power over others. Dressed up as freedom, it is a formula for oppression and bondage. It does nothing to address inequality, hardship or social exclusion. A transparently self-serving vision, it seeks to justify the greedy and selfish behaviour of those with wealth and power.

    But, for the sake of argument, Bruenig says, let us accept it. Let us accept the idea that damage to the value of property without the owner’s consent is an unwarranted intrusion upon the owner’s freedoms. What this means is that as soon as libertarians encounter environmental issues, they’re stuffed.

    Climate change, industrial pollution, ozone depletion, damage to the physical beauty of the area surrounding people’s homes (and therefore their value) – all these, if libertarians did not possess a shocking set of double standards, would be denounced by them as infringements on other people’s property…

  257. Tony permalink
    May 14, 2012 1:36 pm

    Wow! Those evil Libertarians want us all to live in bondage while they rape the earth. Trouble is Monbiot has evidently never read Adam Smith, Hayek or various other libertarian thinkers who see environmental protection as a necessary function of government.

  258. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 14, 2012 1:41 pm

    “I see Peter Gleick, the man who obtained and leaked the devastating documents from the Heartland Institute, as a democratic hero.”

    Gleick is an unprincipled ethicist who disgraced himself and was forced to resign as Chair of the Task Force on Scientific Ethics of the American Geophysical Union for his unethical conduct. And for this Monbiot thinks him a hero!

    The piece you quoted is a ridiculous straw-man wank Armie, presenting as it does an extreme view of property rights held by very few, if any.

    Property rights are a pre-requisite for civilisation to exist. That does not mean that property rights must be unlimited. It is a question of balance. The other extreme – where the state controls all property – results in poverty and misery for the citizens and dachas for the party elite.

  259. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 14, 2012 1:50 pm

    Wow! Those evil Libertarians want us all to live in bondage while they rape the earth. Trouble is Monbiot has evidently never read Adam Smith, Hayek or various other libertarian thinkers who see environmental protection as a necessary function of government.

    yes, funny how the only legitimate function of government according to libertarians is when the state steps in to protect their private interests!

  260. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 14, 2012 1:54 pm

    Property rights are a pre-requisite for civilisation to exist.

    Wot utter rubbish! People can exist perfectly well without property rights, you don’t need to own stuff to exist.

    Property rights (and government) exist to protect wealth and privilege.

  261. Tony permalink
    May 14, 2012 2:07 pm

    ‘People can exist perfectly well without property rights’

    Got any shining examples?

  262. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 14, 2012 2:26 pm

    “People can exist perfectly well without property rights, you don’t need to own stuff to exist.”

    People can exist without property rights – as slaves.

    The right of citizens to defend their property from expropriation by the king/chief/ruler is the first step away from servitude. Take it down to the present day and we have seen that it is not p[ossible for governments to allocate property rights fairly or in a way that produces economically effective use of property. They aren’t smart enough to make the necessary decisions. And they will be influenced by extraneous factors and corrupt motives. Like NSW under Labor. The state becomes the HSU writ large.

    We have seen what the ideological destruction of property rights does. In the 20th century leftists imposed variants of the communist ideology on their people. The outcome was poverty, misery and death. Lots of death. One hundred million killed – the greatest mass-murder of all time. Another failed leftist experiment.

  263. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 14, 2012 2:56 pm

    Got any shining examples?

    The fact that Aboriginal people are still here, still fighting for justice and equality today, despite long ago being dispossessed of their lands and a government determination to breed them out of existence.

    Also, Aboriginal culture is based on sharing, no high value is placed on private ownership.

  264. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 14, 2012 3:12 pm

    “Also, Aboriginal culture is based on sharing, no high value is placed on private ownership.”

    That works well in hunter and gatherer and animal herding societies. Once you get to organised agriculture and beyond you need to be able to organise a larger group of people to produce the food and free up others for producing better tools and other goods. Towns and cities develop and those societies with rules to protect the person and property of citizens escape slavery and develop towards freedom and economic prosperity.

    Not many people want to live “perfectly well” in stone age conditions.

  265. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 14, 2012 3:18 pm

    Not many people want to live “perfectly well” in stone age conditions.

    That’s because they’ve been conditioned to the enslavement of consumerism. The backlash is on though, be it the need to save humanity from the folly of itself or the need to escape a false existence and return to the basics eg tree and sea changes etc.

  266. JAWS permalink
    May 14, 2012 4:00 pm

    “People can exist perfectly well without property rights, you don’t need to own stuff to exist.”

    Yeah OK

    But there wont be any “stuff” in the first place

  267. JAWS permalink
    May 14, 2012 4:02 pm

    I assume if I then catch a fish I dont own it and I have to share it with a few lazy pricks that did nothing except sit in the shade of the cave all day ?

  268. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 14, 2012 4:18 pm

    A tale of two villages:

    There was once a particularly industrious and skilful man in a coastal village near the mouth of a river. He caught more fish than he could eat, while his fellow villagers just barely managed to feed themselves. The problem was that without refrigeration his spare fish spoiled. He had an idea of giving his spare fish to some of his fellow villagers in return for them forgoing their own foraging for food and building him a bigger hut. When his bigger hut was built he had an even better idea. In return for his spare fish, he commissioned the building of a bigger fishing boat for himself and something he had dreamt up in his spare time, which he called a fishing net. Now, with his bigger boat and net, he had many spare fish, and had the best idea of all. He employed some villagers to help him catch even more fish and sail upriver to neighbouring villages and towns, where fish were scarcer; to trade his fish for other goods and something called money. That was only the start; that village is now called “metropolis”.

    There was another coastal village, equally endowed, in another place. A man in that village caught more fish than he could eat and it was decided that he would share his surplus with the others, so that they would have a little more to eat and would not have to work so hard. That village is now called “village”.

  269. JAWS permalink
    May 14, 2012 4:25 pm

    Was his name John West ?

  270. James of North Melbourne permalink
    May 14, 2012 4:40 pm

    You shouldn’t be eating fish in the first place. Fish are living creatures.

    There are plenty of berries to go around.

  271. TB Queensland permalink
    May 14, 2012 4:54 pm

    What a wonderfully simple story of the world … as we know it ….

    Sequel …

    … the Village was a happy and contented place where everyone helped and enjoyed each other’s company and had time to spend with their families and friends … they didn’t want for much – shelter, clothing, food and safety …

    Metropolis grew and grew and was eventually controlled by powerful men who each wanted to be the supreme ruler, competition and accumulation became a way of life …

    … the men of Metropolis with the most resources used other men to fight for them against other powerful men … as people took sides and were paid money to destroy the other controllers’ people, eventually they and thier families were destroyed as greed for power overtook the need for food and goods … Metropolis was running out of resources so they started to look further afield and came upon … the Village … the Village people refused to help destroy others and most were destroyed themselves by the people from Metropolis … the Village folk who escaped travelled further down the coast …

    … eventually decay, disease and hunger killed off the remainder of the Metropolis dwellers …

    Further down the coast at the mouth of another river ….

  272. Tony permalink
    May 14, 2012 4:54 pm

    ‘I assume if I then catch a fish I dont own it and I have to share it with a few lazy pricks that did nothing except sit in the shade of the cave all day ?’

    There’s a solution to that problem. A strong leader emerges and decides what everyone will do as their “fair” “share” of the work. The leader then appoints some of the tribe to make sure everyone else does their “fair” “share”, under threat of punishment, imprisonment, or even death. Let’s call those enforcers the secret police, for want of a better term. And here’s a catchy name for this system of no property rights where everyone lives in harmony: Communism.

  273. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 14, 2012 4:57 pm

    Was his name John West?”

    No. John West who rejected a lot of fish. A community of layabouts grew up around his factory and lived off the scraps, preferring second rate fish to actual work. They were a once proud people brought low by a sense of entitlement and a preference for ease. When John West learned how to make fishmeal out of the scraps he and his workers became wealthier but there were no more scraps. The layabouts found they had, having become addicted to a life of ease, no food and no skills to catch fish or otherwise feed themselves. However they did have a massive sense of grievance and entitlement. They took to the streets and burned John West’s factory down. Then, not only the layabouts, but also John West and his workers went hungry. We call that village Greece.

    Most people create wealth before deciding how to spend it. Others (we call them socialists) decide what they are entitled to but have not a clue about how to generate the wealth to pay for these entitlements. So they spend their lives not productively but instead scheming to extract their entitlements from those who have worked to create wealth.

  274. el gordo permalink
    May 14, 2012 5:06 pm

    The other bit of news is that Tony Abbott is seeing Plimer for advice.

  275. JAWS permalink
    May 14, 2012 5:15 pm

    “… the Village was a happy and contented place where everyone helped and enjoyed each other’s company”

    You obviously never dropped by…………………………LOL

  276. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 14, 2012 5:30 pm

    Village, due to its primitive technology had no means to defend itself and was obliterated like road-kill in one of the many inter-metropolis disputes. The lives of the villagers were generally nasty, brutish and short in any event.

    After much internecine warfare, refugees from the land of dysfunctional metropolises went across the sea to establish a new metropolis. They studied history (which they were able to do as a result of the invention of writing in an early metropolis) and came up with some rules about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. They were successful and productive, but a new unproductive industry blighted their land – the grievance industry. By degrees the government grew and soon most of the citizens relied on the government for their existence. The government didn’t produce any wealth, but plundered those who did produce wealth to satisfy the demands of the grievance industry. Year by year the demands became larger and the wealth-producers became fewer and fewer….. to be continued.

  277. JAWS permalink
    May 14, 2012 5:35 pm

    “The lives of the villagers were generally nasty, brutish and short in any event.”

    The men were easily identified by their preferred mode of dress.

    The Safari Suit

  278. el gordo permalink
    May 14, 2012 5:53 pm

    Slight correction, Australia’s share of industrial CO2 is 0.17 of a millimetre, not 0.15 as Booker suggested.

  279. TB Queensland permalink
    May 14, 2012 6:34 pm

    … and came up with some rules about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness

    Why do so many Australians tend to mix their history and politics with the USA … have we become so blighted blinded by American Über Capitalism …

    http://www.avantrex.com/essay/freetalk.html

  280. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 14, 2012 6:41 pm

    Sorry, I had to leave and do some chores.

    I think you [perhaps deliberately] missed my point.

    I meant that the very fact that Aboriginal people still exist today and that they have not been completely wiped from history is testament to their culture and society. It is what has given them the resilience to endure and survive against all the odds. No mean feat. it is a story of progression not regression to a ‘stone age’. The Jews had help from other nations, I can’t think of any nation that has assisted our Indigenous in their endeavours for justice and equality [and white Australians haven’t done much except to hate, exclude and marginalise]. Here we are today, our economy going really well, a rich society, yet every time an Aboriginal pops up their head up to say something or remind people that they are still second class citizens here, they are immediately shot down by the usual haters.

    ‘I assume if I then catch a fish I dont own it and I have to share it with a few lazy pricks that did nothing except sit in the shade of the cave all day ?’

    It is not a ‘problem’ if you don’t have a need to ‘possess’ things for yourself alone. If you come from a viewpoint of sharing and pooling resources, everyone plays a part, someone else might clean the fish another may cook it. Why does someone need to ‘own’ it for themselves?

  281. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 14, 2012 6:50 pm

    Why do so many Australians tend to mix their history and politics with the USA … have we become so blighted blinded by American Über Capitalism …

    Some Australians have become US citizens by proxy. They have swallowed the predatory capitalist propaganda of US corporations, hook line and sinker.

    I know, I have reminded tony before that the US constitution is not relevant to Australians [I think he must spend a good deal of time reading the nonsense of Tea Party style Libertarianism [guaranteed to do your head in] 😉

  282. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 14, 2012 6:58 pm

    Most people create wealth before deciding how to spend it. Others (we call them socialists) decide what they are entitled to but have not a clue about how to generate the wealth to pay for these entitlements. So they spend their lives not productively but instead scheming to extract their entitlements from those who have worked to create wealth.

    Who does this splatter?
    That statement drivel, nothing but ideological prejudice and bigotry. Most people I know work hard and earn their own money to support themselves and others. They are happy to pay taxes to provide for those less fortunate than themselves and to fund the services that should be better provided if only ‘private choice’ were just that, exclusively private not taxpayer funded eg health and education etc.

    Very lazy and not supported by any evidence whatsoever. Keep the hate, division and envy alive mate!

  283. May 14, 2012 8:28 pm

    Whose fishing line did I use ?

  284. el gordo permalink
    May 14, 2012 8:48 pm

    ‘Carbon trading and offset provider CO2 Group has posted a small rise in net profit for the first half of its financial year, despite doubling revenues, and is seeking to diversify its operations amid continuing debate around environmental policies in Australia.’

  285. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 14, 2012 8:52 pm

    🙄 who cares

    You people just don’t get the concept of sharing do you?

    I don’t know how you manage in your jobs, you must be so ‘looking out for no.1’ that you are stabbing everyone in the back, taking credit for the work of others, working all kinds of unpaid overtime to crawl up the arse of the boss, nicking others lunches out of the fridge and denying it, never doing your share of the housekeeping, plotting & scheming.

    Very sad.

  286. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 14, 2012 8:55 pm

    my reply is to jaws,

    Whose fishing line did I use ?

    googy slipped in while I was busy typing.

  287. May 14, 2012 8:59 pm

    Oh come on Kitty

    I’m just having a bit of fun

  288. el gordo permalink
    May 14, 2012 9:14 pm

    ‘Chief climate commissioner Tim Flannery says some of the negative impacts of warmer weather in Sydney’s west are not immediately obvious.

    “What happens when we get these very, very hot days is that elderly people and the very young particularly are vulnerable and people get a little bit confused because they’re heat stressed,” he said.

    “People get angry as well, particularly if you’re sitting in a traffic jam and it’s stinking hot outside.”

    Flummery deserves the sack and Abbott will see to it. He should be replaced by Plimer and the new Climate Commissioner will tell the masses that global warming was a beat up.

    At first the people will be surprised by this turn of events, but then everyone will begin to laugh out loud.

  289. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 14, 2012 9:33 pm

    “Keep the hate, division and envy alive mate!”

    It’s not me, but the hate game is playing out before our eyes – the Labor strategy of personalise, polarise and hate. It is exactly what Labor is doing to Rinehart and Palmer and Twiggy. Utterly gutless vindictive politics. You live on the North Shore of Sydney – under he bus with you. This demonstrates Gillard’s childish nastiness as well as her demographic stupidity. This is Labor’s last hope I guess – divide Australia and create class envy. Someone needs to tell these bumbling power-mad poltroons that that won’t work either.

    The decisions Labor has taken this time around have been all about destroying the economy – IR reform, green energy projects, the mining tax, the carbon tax and green tape everywhere. And the poor fools think they will end up with more money in the government coffers. Instead they will end up with an impoverished economy and less money to go around.

    I don’t mind government spending when the money is there to be spent. At the moment we are $200bn in debt, the debt limit has been increased but even if we keep running surpluses like the one predicted in the budget we will still take about 40 years to pay it off.

    So why don’t you tell me what this government has done to generate the wealth they have already spent?

    It doesn’t have to be this way. Some countries generate wealth, have little or no debt and have excellent welfare. It starts with ensuring they can pay for the welfare. So if you want big government spending, step one is to generate the wealth to fund it. Neither Labor nor the Greens have a clue about that, do they?

    And by the way, there is only one race in this country worth speaking about – the human race. Further differentiation just fosters hatred and enmity.

  290. Bacchus permalink
    May 14, 2012 11:50 pm

    Very interesting…

    One of the world’s biggest oil producers and consumers has launched a renewable energy programme that may make Riyadh the new global hub for clean power…

    Under the stewardship of the King Abdullah City for Atomic and Renewable Energy (Ka-care), it has unveiled a detailed programme that will see it generate 41 gigawatts of solar energy over the next 20 years….

    With its renewable energy policy now in place, the kingdom will be able to start satisfying its unparalleled thirst for power through solar-generated rather than oil-generated electricity.

    Concentrated solar power plants will be installed to meet winter demand while photovoltaic power plants will be erected to crunch peak-time usage during the summer months. Each megawatt of solar power installed will be able to meet the annual electricity needs of some 50 single-family homes.

    Another major benefit is job creation. Today, some 60 per cent of Saudi nationals are under 25. These youths will be looking for jobs soon. By building a world-class clean energy sector, the kingdom will ensure a steady supply of new jobs.

    According to the European Photovoltaic Technology Platform, every megawatt of solar power installed creates about 50 jobs in research, manufacturing, installation, and distribution activities.

    In other words, by rolling out 41 gigawatts, the kingdom will help to create, both directly and indirectly, some 2 million new jobs.

    There are also important environmental benefits. Burning crude oil and derivatives thereof such as fuel oil releases harmful gases such as carbon dioxide, which is bad news not only for the citizens of Saudi Arabia but for the planet as a whole.

    By adopting this ambitious programme, Saudi Arabia has set in motion steps that will see it offset approximately 44 million tonnes of carbon dioxide, equivalent to taking some 10 million cars off the road.

    http://www.thenational.ae/thenationalconversation/industry-insights/energy/saudi-arabia-blazes-a-trail-on-solar-power

  291. el gordo permalink
    May 15, 2012 7:51 am

    ‘In Wagga Wagga, population 63,000, residents will potentially be hit with annual carbon tax bills of $600,000 or more – just for taking their rubbish to the tip.

    ‘Wagga council is already budgeting for this ridiculous outcome based on carbon dioxide emission totals from the local tip during past years. Under the government’s carbon tax rules, landfill sites that emit more than 25,000 tonnes of CO2 per year face a $23 per tonne penalty.’

    Tim Blair in the Daily Terror

  292. el gordo permalink
    May 16, 2012 6:24 pm

    The main reason China is concerned about food security is because, as this graph illustrates, around 400 AD there was a Bond Event and we see the warming and consequent cooling had nothing to do with CO2.

  293. el gordo permalink
    May 17, 2012 8:57 am

    After the Parramatta gathering…

    “When you see the attacks on Tim that you’ve seen, that is completely counter-productive,” Prof Steffen said.

    “It’s uncalled for. You may disagree quite strongly with some of the things Tim says, but let’s be a civilised country and sit down over a cup of tea and talk about this.”

    Prof Steffen is only joking.

  294. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 18, 2012 2:54 pm

    Combet has a Gillard moment:

    JONES: Well, I mean, Christine Milne said that the three-year fixed price was non-negotiable and they negotiated with the Government and it was part of the process, as you say, of getting these things through Parliament. Why distance yourself from these negotiations?

    COMBET: Well, I’m not distancing myself from it at all. I was in the room. I was the lead government negotiator and that is not at all my recollection of the situation.

    JONES: Well, then, perhaps you could explain it to us. Who came up with the three-year fixed price?

    COMBET:Well, I don’t think I do have to explain it to you.

    He must have admired how Gillard’s Four Corners evasions enhanced her credibility.

  295. el gordo permalink
    May 18, 2012 8:03 pm

    Some of you may have read recently that Australia hasn’t been this hot for at least 1000 years.

    Gergis et al., attached to the Klimatariat, has been cherry picking proxies and relying too heavily on tree rings from NZ and Tasmania. Tree rings are notoriously unreliable as a proxy.

    The sceptics and denialati are chaffing at the bitt because they have only the press release and no paper to get their teeth into.

  296. el gordo permalink
    May 18, 2012 9:36 pm

    A brief reading indicates that for the past 1000 years the sun has had little effect on Australian climate and for the past 60 years industrial CO2 has had a dramatic effect.

    Hmmm…

  297. Tony permalink
    May 19, 2012 12:20 am

    Only Global Poverty Can Save The Planet, Green Extremists Insist

    ‘Extremist green campaigning group WWF – endorsed by no less a body than the European Space Agency – has stated that economic growth should be abandoned, that citizens of the world’s wealthy nations should prepare for poverty and that all the human race’s energy should be produced as renewable electricity within 38 years from now.

    ‘Most astonishingly of all, the green hardliners demand that the enormous numbers of wind farms, tidal barriers and solar powerplants required under their plans should somehow be built while at the same time severely rationing supplies of concrete, steel, copper and glass. . .

    ‘It’s not just resources that are limited, in the WWF’s view: human potential itself is up against a hard limit beyond which the race cannot ever advance. Even progress thus far, as seen in the wealthy nations, has been achieved only by an unfair and wasteful over-use of precious resources: we rich Westerners are already beyond the practical limits that humans should ever aspire to achieve in terms of health, wealth – and even of education.

    ‘That’s not economics – that’s religion. And not very nice religion either.’

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/16/wwf_living_planet_report/

  298. Tony permalink
    May 19, 2012 12:23 am

    ‘The real enemy is humanity itself’

    ‘Forty years ago, two ideas about humanity’s relationship with the natural world caught the imagination of the richest and most influential people. The first was that the demands of a growing population were taking more from the planet than could be replaced by natural processes. The second, related idea was that there exist natural ‘limits to growth’. These two reinventions of Malthusianism became the basis of a new form of global politics, which has sought to contain human industrial and economic development ever since.’

    http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/12456/

  299. el gordo permalink
    May 19, 2012 8:38 am

    ‘citizens of the world’s wealthy nations should prepare for poverty’

    Europe is leading by example.

  300. el gordo permalink
    May 19, 2012 12:22 pm

    On further reading of Gergis et al….they have definitely tortured the data, so BS Detectors need to be activated.

  301. el gordo permalink
    May 21, 2012 7:38 pm

    If we accept the Gergis paper at face value, that tree rings are a valid proxy, then we should consider our future…the last graph at the end of this article indicates we are entering a deep cold phase.

    http://lustiag.pp.fi/holocene_trends1000_INQUA.pdf

    There is a tipping point, but not what the barrackers imagine.

  302. el gordo permalink
    May 23, 2012 4:11 pm

    Neverendiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing.

    No, the science is settled and the irony stings. The Denialati, unlike the sceptics, appreciate the gravity of the situation…its a Bond Event.

  303. el gordo permalink
    May 25, 2012 8:13 am

    The big news is that policy makers around the world have come to their senses, all except Julia.

    http://opinion.financialpost.com/2012/05/23/deal-with-climate-reality-as-it-unfolds/

  304. Meta permalink
    May 25, 2012 9:12 am

    (Yes, a model Carter does seem to appreciate the gravity of the situation…adaptation being the ACME of precaution.)

  305. el gordo permalink
    May 25, 2012 9:18 am

    The important thing Meta, they have finally recognised that black soot pollution can be eradicated at relatively little cost.

    Adaptation is Carter’s signature tune.

  306. James of North Melbourne permalink
    May 25, 2012 3:37 pm

    Fuck it’s cold today…..and fucking wet……

  307. JAWS permalink
    May 25, 2012 3:46 pm

    Yeah………..strange how the weather is sooooooooo unpredictable to most of us.

    But usually quite easy to predict if you are government funded.

  308. el gordo permalink
    May 25, 2012 3:54 pm

    The Klimatariat will pay for this turn in the weather…the people don’t believe there is any need for a tax on carbon dioxide.

  309. el gordo permalink
    May 25, 2012 9:35 pm

    Reinforcing the reality that over the past decade CO2 has continued to rise and temperatures have remained flat.

    http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/gistemp/from:2001.25/plot/esrl-co2/from:2001.25/normalise/plot/gistemp/from:2001.25/trend

    The tax on carbon dioxide is morally reprehensible.

  310. Tony permalink
    May 27, 2012 5:56 am

    “We have never been in danger of running out of resources,” says Dr. Robert Zubrin, “but we have encountered considerable dangers from people who say we are running out of resources and who say that human activities need to be constrained.”

  311. Tony permalink
    May 30, 2012 8:42 am

    (Reuters) – A boom in unconventional natural gas over the next 20 years could see the United States and others benefit from cheaper energy while the importance of the Middle East declines, the International Energy Agency (IEA) said on Tuesday.

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/05/29/uk-energy-gas-iea-idUKBRE84S0E020120529

  312. Tony permalink
    May 30, 2012 8:45 am

    ‘There was a time — as recently as early 2010 — when the Great and the Good, the Champions of the Conventional Wisdom and the Oracles of the Davoisie identified this forlorn negotiation as the wave of the future and the last best hope of man.

    ‘Let the futility and failure to which all this led be a reminder to us and to them: those who guide the world’s destiny aren’t nearly as discerning as they think they are. Between the American housing bubble, the European meltdown and the climate disaster, it almost begins to look as if the Establishment consists mostly of overpaid, egotistical blowhards.’

    http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2012/05/28/global-green-agenda-continues-to-fail/

  313. Tony permalink
    May 30, 2012 9:04 am

    ‘According to the latest forecasts from the Department of Energy in its latest Annual Energy Outlook, the fossil fuel (coal, natural gas and oil) share of energy consumption will fall only slightly in the future, from 83 percent of total U.S. energy demand in 2010 to 77 percent in 2035. More than twenty years from now, renewables as a fuel source are expected to provide less than 11% of total energy demand. Bottom Line: Hydrocarbon energy is America’s future, and it’s the energy treasures beneath our feet that will continue to power the U.S. economy for many generations.’

    http://mjperry.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/chart-of-day-fuel-sources-for-us-energy.html

  314. Meta permalink
    May 30, 2012 11:08 am

    (I wish the Germans would stop changing their reference(s) case(s); doing so naturally makes projections about an issy-oughty very difficult, either way.)

  315. el gordo permalink
    May 30, 2012 11:53 am

    The economic meltdown in Europe has created a rethink on energy.

  316. el gordo permalink
    June 1, 2012 10:47 am

    Post hoc ergo propter hoc

    ‘But Mr Combet said that despite Mr Abbott’s warnings of seriously damaging the economy, there had been a surge in mining industry investment since plans for the carbon price were announced.’

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/hypocrisy-call-over-carbon-tax-20120531-1zkt7.html#ixzz1wUwLdvIQ

  317. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 2, 2012 9:27 pm

    By the way, it’s no use debating the point. It’s a tax or a levy, not a price.

    People need to get over it.

  318. el gordo permalink
    June 2, 2012 10:05 pm

    Thanx Tom, I’m a slow learner.

  319. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 2, 2012 11:11 pm

    Well, the last thing it is, is a price.

    There’s no market, no variation method, it exists purely to raise revenue that the government then distributes according to it’s priorities.

    Regardless of an opinion on climate change, it’s stupid to suggest that it isn’t a tax.

  320. Tony permalink
    June 3, 2012 10:29 am

    ‘Spanish renewable-energy companies that once got Europe’s biggest subsidies are deserting the nation after the government shut off aid, pushing project developers and equipment-makers to work abroad or perish. “They destroyed the Spanish market overnight with the moratorium,” European Wind Energy Association Chief Executive Officer Christian Kjaer said in an interview. “The wider implication of this is that if Spanish politicians can do that, probably most European politicians can do that.”’

    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-05-29/spain-ejects-clean-power-industry-with-europe-precedent-energy

  321. Tony permalink
    June 3, 2012 10:32 am

    ‘The shale gas boom has led to a big drop in US carbon emissions, as generators switch from coal to cheap gas. According to the International Energy Agency, US energy-related emissions of carbon dioxide, the main greenhouse gas, have fallen 450m tonnes over the past five years – the largest drop among all countries surveyed.’ –Guy Chazan, Financial Times, 23 May 2012

  322. Tony permalink
    June 3, 2012 10:40 am

    ‘The German government no longer believes in the green energy transition. Doubts are growing in the ruling coalition government that the ecological project can succeed.

    ‘The project, which involves shutting down Germany’s nuclear power plants and an increase of the share of renewable energy to 40 percent, was a very ambitious goal, the parliamentary leader of the Free Liberal Party (FDP) Rainer Bruederle told “Welt am Sonntag”. “We will have to build a whole range of new gas-and coal-fired power plants – perhaps more than we first thought. It can not be that we are shutting down our nuclear power plants and then import nuclear electricity from France or the Czech Republic,” he said.’

    http://www.morgenpost.de/politik/inland/article106382748/Bundesregierung-glaubt-nicht-an-oekologische-Energiewende.html

  323. el gordo permalink
    June 3, 2012 10:59 am

    Down at the cafe the watermelons are counting the days, it beggars belief.

    Taxing a benign gas is a waste of the people’s money and I demand due diligence.

  324. TB Queensland permalink
    June 3, 2012 11:44 am

    Mmmmm … if I’m eligible for the pension on 29 June … I wonder if I get the “bonus” handout pensioners before, 1 July? (chuckle, chuckle) All gifts from the government gratefully recieved … it really is, only getting back some of your own anyway … 🙄

    … there ya go, ToMMy, it’s not a tax, it’s not not a levy, it’s not a price … it’s a gift!

    I’ve never seen so many people, make so much fuss, over something so silly …

  325. el gordo permalink
    June 3, 2012 11:49 am

    Yeah…might buy a laptop, pack my swag and head off to the never never with what’s left over.

  326. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 3, 2012 12:05 pm

    Well TB, I think the key issue is the breach(es) of faith.
    Not just the “no carbon tax” pledge. Also “it will fail without community consensus”, building the scheme during this term, and not introducing before July 2013 (ie to have it endorsed at the next election).

    The disillusionment of the community with politicians generally, and this Prime Minister specifically is entirely understandable.

    …and it’s got nothing to do with the media!

    😆

  327. el gordo permalink
    June 3, 2012 12:32 pm

    Or the fact that she’s a woman.

  328. TB Queensland permalink
    June 3, 2012 1:48 pm

    Who’s a woman? !!!

  329. el gordo permalink
    June 4, 2012 10:17 pm

    The Climate Sceptics party has changed its name to the No Carbon Tax Climate Sceptics.

  330. Tony permalink
    June 6, 2012 4:07 pm

    Shell Says Early Shale-Gas Drilling in China Encouraging: ‘Shell in March became the first foreign company to sign a production-sharing contract to explore, develop and produce shale gas in China, a move that reflects China’s strategy of using foreign technical and operational expertise to develop its untapped shale-gas reserves, which are projected to be massive. . . The explosion in shale-gas production in North America over the past decade has revolutionized the global natural gas industry, sending U.S. prices to multi-year lows and turning oil majors’ focus toward China, which by some estimates has greater shale-gas reserves than the U.S.’

    Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2012/06/05/shell-says-early-shale-gas-drilling-in-china-encouraging/#ixzz1wzTLyWjK

  331. Tony permalink
    June 7, 2012 7:11 am

    Reason.com: Union of Concerned Scientists Cooks the Books, Media Swallow It: An environmentalist lobbying group claims corporations pay vast sums to misrepresent climate science.

    ‘Last week the environmental lobbying group the Union of Concerned Scientists issued a new report entitled “A Climate of Corporate Control: How Corporations Have Influenced the U.S. Dialogue on Climate Science and Policy” [PDF]. Among other things, the report claims to trace corporate donations in 2008 and 2009 to think tanks and politicians as a way to uncover the true corporate attitudes and intentions toward climate change science and policy. According to the UCS, its analysis reveals that some corporations are climate-change science hypocrites, claiming to support the climate-change “consensus” in some venues but not in others. This climate hypocrisy allegedly produces confusion among both the public and policymakers, resulting in the defeat or delay of urgent policies needed to address climate change.

    . . .

    ‘So what vast sums of money did the duplicitous executives at General Electric lavish on the Reason Foundation in 2008 and 2009 to support an implied campaign to traduce climate science? Exactly $325. How much did GE spend on matching and direct grants on the six think tanks identified by the UCS as being pro-climate consensus? That would be $497,744.’

    http://reason.com/archives/2012/06/05/follow-the-pennies

  332. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 7, 2012 10:49 am

    There are few things more ridiculous than a “concerned” scientist. In Australia we have our own masturbatorium known as The Wentworth Group of Concerned Scientists.

    These types of organisation are dedicated to the politicisation of science. In the end science becomes debased as it is subordinated to a political agenda. Science becomes a mere prop – if you bribe enough scientists with easy money they will produce the desired studies, the main purpose of which is to bash opponents of the political agenda; to tell them to shut up while the more cynical “scientists” scare the voters into submission.

    The IPCC is a case in point. While it purports to base its decisions on science, its role is to advise governments on policy. It cannot afford to come to any conclusion other than that we are facing an immediate catastrophe. Were it to do so, billions of dollars in grants and funding would dry up. The status of the insiders would decline as would their jet-setting lifestyles.

    For politicians of a leftist bent climate alarmism provides an opportunity to increase the role of government, expand the left-voting bureaucratic class and an opportunity to empower UN bureaucracies as a stepping stone to global governance. It provides an opportunity to provide crony capitalist supporters of the government with massive funding. Take Solyndra for example. Not only has the government blown the half a billion they lent to it, the Obama cronies who provided the venture capital are entitled to priority over the government for repayment of the debt. Extraordinary!

    The most interesting thing to come out of the great climate scare will be the opportunity to use it as a case-study of the effects of politicised science. The good news is that this scam has reached peak stupidity and will fade away from here. The jig is up. The people know they have been deceived and the “concerned” scientists know the people know this. Their main goal now will be to preserve what little is left of their reputations.

  333. Tony permalink
    June 7, 2012 11:46 am

    Well put sb.

  334. JAWS permalink
    June 7, 2012 12:12 pm

    “Down at the cafe the watermelons are counting the days, it beggars belief.”

    Eg,

    I see they are getting a tad sensitive about you calling them watermelons these days.

    🙂

  335. el gordo permalink
    June 7, 2012 12:50 pm

    They are not happy with my suggestion that this minority government is a watermelon coalition…the gloves are off and the Denialati will not be taking prisoners after July 1.

    I also endorse splatter’s essay and agree that the people know this tax is a scam.

  336. el gordo permalink
    June 8, 2012 6:59 am

    ‘THE federal government is paying 10 times its carbon price to cut greenhouse gas emissions at thousands of schools, according to a highly critical audit that warns of safety risks under the program.

    ‘Labor’s election pledge to install solar panels in every school has emerged as one of the most expensive schemes to reduce emissions, prompting the Auditor-General to question the policy’s cost and value for money.’

    David Crowe in the Oz

  337. June 8, 2012 8:48 am

    I also resent the politicisation of science. It renders it unto the depths of pseudo-sciences like creationism/ID.

  338. June 8, 2012 10:34 am

    I think belief in ‘Peak Oil’ has peaked.

    Meet The Oil Shale Eighty Times Bigger Than The Bakken

    ‘Everyone has heard about the Bakken shale, the huge expanse of oil-bearing rock underneath North Dakota and Montana that billionaire Harold Hamm thinks could yield 24 billion barrels of oil in the decades to come. But as great as the Bakken is, I learned last week about another oil shale play that dwarfs it. It’s called The Bazhenov. It’s in Western Siberia, in Russia. And while the Bakken is big, the Bazhenov — according to a report last week by Sanford Bernstein’s lead international oil analyst Oswald Clint — “covers 2.3 million square kilometers or 570 million acres, which is the size of Texas and the Gulf of Mexico combined.” This is 80 times bigger than the Bakken. A play 80 times bigger like the Bazhenov would imply 1,920 billion barrels. That’s a preposterous figure, enough oil to satisfy all of current global demand for 64 years, or to do 5 million bpd for more than 1,000 years.’

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2012/06/04/bakken-bazhenov-shale-oil/

  339. JAWS permalink
    June 8, 2012 11:11 am

    You don’t need to travel very far amongst the Leftie blogs to find some pretty brain dead stuff written by absolute morons.

    No matter what you might think about the current fight between the Feds and the Qld Government about the Galilee Basin Coalfields, and who is right or wrong about it, yesterday I happened upon a comment from an obviously titally f**king brain dead moron that perhaps the coal industry in Queensland should perhaps not be permitted to use ports along the Great Barrier Reef coastline.

    I suppose we’ll airlift our coal from now on will we ?

    Now if that is not bad enough, as a totally moronic and brain dead statement, the fact that it was not even challenged should leave no doubt as the intent of the Left to wreak as much economic damage upon this Nation as humanly possible before they face their well deserved day of electoral annihilation.

  340. Tom R permalink
    June 8, 2012 11:22 am

    I note grodo is still too chicken shit to right its wrongs

    In other news, this seems appropriate.

  341. TB Queensland permalink
    June 8, 2012 12:25 pm

    Shale oil certainly exists in vast quantities … but its very expensive to “squeeze” … and its often in very difficult places – the bloody stuff freezes in Alaska … of course many folk forget that most oil isn’t for burning in cars … you can make stuff like plastic with it!

    To bring shale oil to the level of purity you get from petroleum grade takes a lot of $$$$$$

  342. el gordo permalink
    June 8, 2012 5:30 pm

    ‘I note grodo is still too chicken shit to right its wrongs’

    Do you mean the ‘highly critical audit’?

    Anyhoo…Thorium is our possible future and aren’t we lucky that we waited for this abundant opportunity.

  343. Tony permalink
    June 9, 2012 7:00 am

    ‘The Rio+20 Earth Summit on Sustainable Development, which starts in two weeks, will be a farce, even if everybody keeps a straight face. The grand UN-based system conceived to co-ordinate the activities of all mankind has proved utterly unsustainable, a dysfunctional mess that generates nothing but endless meetings, agendas and reports.

    ‘That sustainable development would inevitably collapse under its own contradictions was inevitable. What is fascinating is why every country on Earth would earnestly have committed to a concept hatched by a cabal of ardent socialists. Equally fascinating is the almost universal reluctance to acknowledge the organizational disaster that has ensued.’

    http://opinion.financialpost.com/2012/06/07/peter-foster-no-bravo-for-rio20/

  344. Tony permalink
    June 9, 2012 7:05 am

    ‘The BBC reports that the United Nations Environment Program (UNEP) is warning of a whole new set of ‘tipping points’ being reached unless “population growth” and “unsustainable consumption” are tackled at an international level. Translation: there are simply too many of you, and you’ve all got too much stuff.

    ‘UNEP is calling for tough new international agreements to tackle the crisis, arguing – in perfect Alice in Wonderland fashion – that this has already failed hundreds of times, so we should be trying it again, just more so.

    ‘Isn’t that just fantastic “Mad Hatter” reasoning? We’ve had more than seven hundred international agreements on environmental protection and apparently things are still getting worse. So apparently the problem is that we don’t have enough of them, we need more international agreements, and they need to be stricter.’

    http://hauntingthelibrary.wordpress.com/2012/06/06/alice-in-wonderland-unep-warns-of-new-tipping-points-being-reached/

  345. Tom R permalink
    June 9, 2012 9:01 am

    Do you mean the ‘highly critical audit’?

    If you consider an aufit that described it as Overall, …… well designed and effectively implemented. as ‘highly critical ‘, then this thread would be a mine of information. else, it’s just a collection of denialist talking points.

    Even you yourself admitted the article was fos at the cafe, yet I see you are unable to admit the same here. ‘chicken shit’ doesn’t really come close. Sycophant might be more apt?

    http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2012/06/04/open-forum-what-have-been-the-great-political-stuff-ups/#comment-82292

  346. June 9, 2012 9:04 am

    😯

  347. Tom R permalink
    June 9, 2012 9:37 am

    I’m tring to keep with the new stuff and move with the times toiletcliveobesitypalmershitpile 😉

  348. el gordo permalink
    June 9, 2012 12:54 pm

    ‘Sycophant might be more apt?’

    Clearly I have misunderstood, did we venture behind the paywall? I merely retracted my comment… that the AG was ‘not happy’.

    Apart from that, I don’t have a clue what you are on about. You are so cleaver with your ‘hate media’ portfolio that I miss the finer points.

  349. Meta permalink
    June 9, 2012 1:51 pm

    (“Anyhoo…Thorium is our possible future and aren’t we lucky that we waited for this abundant opportunity.”)

  350. June 9, 2012 6:10 pm

    Haha, Steel Panther! great parody band. Fkn hair metal.

    Didn’t they play Soundwave this year?

    Putting the M back in mysogynist.

  351. TB Queensland permalink
    June 9, 2012 6:11 pm

    Thorium is our possible future and aren’t we lucky that we waited for this abundant opportunity.

    Yes! egg …

    AND coupled with Gen IV Nuclear Reactors … Australia has an abundance of the bloody stuff and its waste CAN”T be used for WEAPONS!

    I have waxed lyrical and provided a number of links in past months about both these subjects … (before you joined us I’m tho’)

    When I last looked Russia is the only country building a Gen IV Reactor …

  352. June 9, 2012 6:37 pm

    If Russian Scientists are involved then we should be running the other way. 😯

  353. el gordo permalink
    June 9, 2012 8:54 pm

    China and Saudi Arabia are partners in thorium research and after a thorium conference in Chicago earlier this month it appears Japan is also interested.

    http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/intelligent-energy/safe-nuclear-japanese-utility-elaborates-on-thorium-plans/16570

  354. el gordo permalink
    June 9, 2012 9:00 pm

    From that link….

    ‘Oak Ridge National Laboratory developed a thorium molten salt reactor in the 1960s, when the U.S. was deciding between uranium and thorium as a nuclear fuel.

    ‘Under President Richard Nixon, the U.S. abandoned the Oak Ridge project and charted a uranium future, in part because uranium, yielded weapons-linked waste desirable in the Cold War arms build up. Thorium is not as proliferation prone.’

    The world would be a different place if the US military/commercial complex didn’t exist.

  355. Tom R permalink
    June 10, 2012 10:05 am

    Clearly I have misunderstood

    Perhaps you should include that comment with all of your posts?

  356. el gordo permalink
    June 10, 2012 10:37 am

    Much amusement. Your portfolio is ‘hate media’ and you have a good eye for the ‘beat up’, innuendo and outright distortion by the Murdocracy, but I don’t see it because I’m not looking.

    Sometimes I have misunderstood, like thinking the AG was critical of the government over solar panels on schools…lack of due diligence means inefficient energy at a higher cost.

  357. TB Queensland permalink
    June 10, 2012 10:44 am

    If Russian Scientists are involved then we should be running the other way

    Check your prejudice, HD, I think your bias is showing … 😆

  358. Tom R permalink
    June 10, 2012 10:54 am

    but I don’t see it because I’m not looking.

    And that is why you are a denialist, and not a skeptic. Like all of the other tools who think they are open minded, yet in reality are led down a very blinkered path drawn for them by vested interests.

    And as to my portfolio, it is growing, and, it appears, is becoming mainstream (thanks Finkelstein). The fact that bias in reporting affects not just the quality, but veracity, of that reporting, and, consequently, with peoples perceptions, is now such a cause célèbre. The question now has become how best to handle that awkward (for some) situation.

  359. Tony permalink
    June 10, 2012 11:00 am

    Latest peer-reviewed, much heralded Australian climate science paper quickly discredited by blog-review after basic checks.

    Result? Paper withdrawn.

  360. el gordo permalink
    June 10, 2012 11:42 am

    Gergis et al is in strife and Karoly too.
    ——————
    ‘yet in reality are led down a very blinkered path drawn for them by vested interests.’

    Maybe, there’s all sorts of propaganda going the rounds, like the Fairfax papers pushing global warming when its not happening.

  361. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 10, 2012 11:45 am

    That’s interesting. I saw some of those reports – they were given prominent treatment, even a little emotive.

    So the report was peer reviewed, and then demonstrated to be flawed by a blogger??!!

    Wonders never cease.

  362. Tom R permalink
    June 10, 2012 12:10 pm

    Questions over one paper do not change one iots the weight of evidence for .

    In fact, it is yet to be determined even if those papers are flawed, yet that is how the denialists are portraying it.

  363. TB Queensland permalink
    June 10, 2012 1:05 pm

    The media has always been biased to some degree (we all are) … it’s recognising the bias and reading between the lines that set’s “free thinkers” apart from “rusted on thinkers” …

    My real concern is the lack of general knowledge in the community these days … relying on “text a friend” and Google doesn’t make for the best knife sharpener and there a quite a few who fall into the dullest knives in the drawer …

    Mobile phones should be curfewed between 6am and 10pm … then we might lift productivity and service and develop real relationships the community …

    Nuclear reactors is something that gets a biased report … I was against them up until I was “introduced” to Thorium and Gen IV about 3 years ago (how time flies!) … since researching and being conscious of the “dangerous” tag associated with anything nuclear … I have developed a positive view that thorium is probably the “best” alternative to generating power …

  364. Tom R permalink
    June 10, 2012 1:13 pm

    The media has always been biased to some degree (we all are)

    No doubt about that TB. However, what we have witnessed in the last couple of years has been extraordinary, even by ltdnews standards

    While I whinge, others are more prescient than that.

    http://kingstribune.com/current-issue/1516-the-great-unhinging-revisited

  365. el gordo permalink
    June 10, 2012 4:16 pm

    ‘it is yet to be determined even if those papers are flawed’

    Jollie Gergis is much respected and I agree it may be premature to dump on the paper. The Medieval Warm Period is evident and personally I have nothing against tree rings being used as proxy.

    The problem for her is that she created a hockey stick at the end, which gave support to Michael Mann’s hockey stick… red rag to sceptics but the Denialati are not overly concerned.

    All they have to do is revise their work for the past 200 years and I think that’s what Karoly will attempt to do.

  366. Meta permalink
    June 10, 2012 6:30 pm

    (“…I have nothing against tree rings being used as proxy.”

    Yeah, that’s closer to what I was getting at; an Our Possible Future which had abandoned any notion of a separate or separable environment or ecology in favour of a holistic, bio(synthesising) autopoiesis; a bit like a godless Gaudi Gaia, or an evoluting-and-involuting Tielhardian noo(noo)sphere; or, a global eusocial (instru)mentality of/for (in)discrete (organo-)machine(s); with full access to, and use of, the bio(-mimetic)-suite, with everything and anything a ‘resource’, including itself(ves). Our Possible Future probably wouldn’t even have a problem with growing Nexus-Gen VI thorium piles as distributable component-agenc(y)ies for fueling the post-post-Singularity.)

  367. el gordo permalink
    June 10, 2012 7:24 pm

    As the climate continues to change there will be a lot more focus on ‘black carbon aerosols and tropospheric ozone than greenhouse gas emissions’.

  368. TB Queensland permalink
    June 11, 2012 1:00 pm

    Individual home, clean, generators would be the go … how does that ever work in a market driven , “we need to make big profits”, society … Clivey, Twiggy and the Witch would be fighting tooth and nail … political and economically driven for power (‘scuse the pun) and control …

    Surely its time to leave the 19th Century and really move into the 21st … we still have a foreign Queen as our Head of State … why are people so afraid of change …

  369. el gordo permalink
    June 11, 2012 4:00 pm

    …’opinion poll conducted in 2011 saw a sharp decline in the support for an Australian republic. The polling conducted by the Morgan Poll in May 2011 showed the support for the monarchy was now 55% (up 17% since 1999), whereas the support for a republic was at 34% (down 20%). The turnaround in support for a republic has been called the “strange death of Australian republicanism”.

    ‘A poll taken in the wake of the Queen’s Diamond Jubilee found that support for the monarchy is at a twenty-five-year high. 58% of respondents supported the monarchy whereas 35% supported a republic.’

    Hmmm….dunno.

  370. Tony permalink
    June 11, 2012 10:18 pm

    ‘Peter Gleick’s Possible Involvement in Drafting Fake Heartland Document: Either Not Investigated or the Relevant Results Not Released’

    http://www.volokh.com/2012/06/10/peter-gleicks-possible-involvement-in-drafting-fake-heartland-document-either-not-investigated-or-the-relevant-results-not-released/

  371. Tony permalink
    June 12, 2012 4:22 pm

    Gergis et al sets out to show that recent Australasian warming is unprecedented in the past 1,000 years. Because reliable instrumental records go back only about 100 years, these (paleo)climatologists used temperature ‘proxies’ – tree rings, ice cores, lake sediments, bore holes, coral etc that show annual variations said to be consistent with warmer or cooler temperatures.

    They took an initial set of 62 proxy series and checked how well they correlate with the recent instrumental record. They discarded those that didn’t, and used the remaining 27 ‘significant’ proxies in their study (why is it that some tree rings, for example, are proxies for temperature and others aren’t?).

    In other words, in order to show that recent warming is unprecedented, they used only proxies which showed unprecedented recent warming. This is a kind of circular argument known variously as the ‘screening fallacy’, ‘double-dipping’, or the ‘non-independence error’.

    Steve McIntyre has more . . .

    http://climateaudit.org/2012/06/10/more-on-screening-in-gergis-et-al-2012/

  372. el gordo permalink
    June 12, 2012 4:32 pm

    ‘screening fallacy’, ‘double-dipping’, or the ‘non-independence error’.

    The hockey sticks are unscientific, the prosecution rests its case.

  373. Meta permalink
    June 12, 2012 4:56 pm

    (McIntyre’s screenings for screenings are considerable; we shall add him to the list.)

  374. el gordo permalink
    June 12, 2012 7:10 pm

    Victorians are going to be hit the hardest by the CO2 tax…

    ‘Victoria has yet to decide whether to feature the increase on utilities accounts; however, down there Origin Energy has announced price rises from July 1 of 13.95 per cent for residential and small businesses for electricity, and 14.2 per cent for gas.’

  375. Tony permalink
    June 13, 2012 2:17 pm

    Wikipedia: “Oxygen isotope ratio cycles are cyclical variations in the ratio of the abundance of oxygen with an atomic mass of 18 to the abundance of oxygen with an atomic mass of 16 present in some substances, such as polar ice or calcite in ocean core samples. The ratio is linked to water temperature of ancient oceans, which in turn reflects ancient climates. Cycles in the ratio mirror climate changes in geologic history.”

    Can anyone guess why ‘Law Dome’, a 2,000 year high-resolution O18 series, was screened out of Gergis et al, a study designed to get a hckey stick show recent Australasian warming is “unprecedented”?

  376. JAWS permalink
    June 13, 2012 3:55 pm

    Eg

    Victorians are the lucky ones.

    Everyone in NSW is foisted with 18 to 20% hits on their power bills due to the Carbon Tax, ridiculously expensive Renewable Energy Schemes introduced by State and Federal Labor and relentless dividend stripping (instead of replacing infrastructure) by the previous, now proven criminally corrupt, ALP government in its pursuit of cash for a fatter and lazier state public service bureaucracy

  377. el gordo permalink
    June 13, 2012 4:18 pm

    This is shocking news Jaws and I agree its been folly from start to finish…they have lost my vote forever.

    Barry O’Farrel brought down his budget (I like Baird) and everyone seems happy. Infrastructure is the buzz word.

  378. el gordo permalink
    June 13, 2012 4:24 pm

    Nice graph, Tony. The MWP was warmer than present, this is not a good time to have a glich with the sun.

  379. TB Queensland permalink
    June 13, 2012 5:19 pm

    Bad news, I’m afraid, egg, not eligible for the Age Pension pre-Tax handout (ie before July 1) … cut-off was 8 June … next is March next year … I’ll just have to battle on and buy more baked beans … farting always warms a house up winter or gets hot bodies out in summer … 🙂

  380. el gordo permalink
    June 13, 2012 5:40 pm

    Centrelink asked me to come back with more proof of identity and details on how I survive in a very small business (VSB).

    My brother in law just got dudded. They gave him the full pension a month ago and on second thoughts they decided to cut it in half.

  381. Tony permalink
    June 13, 2012 7:26 pm

    ‘China will take swift counter-measures that could include impounding European aircraft if the EU punishes Chinese airlines for not complying with its scheme to curb carbon emissions, the China Air Transport Association said on Tuesday.’

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/12/us-iata-china-emissions-idUSBRE85B09W20120612

  382. el gordo permalink
    June 13, 2012 8:52 pm

    More good news, the Younger Dryas was caused by a very large rock impacting the earth.

    ‘These new data are the latest to strongly support the controversial Younger Dryas Boundary (YDB) hypothesis, which proposes that a cosmic impact occurred 12,900 years ago at the onset of an unusual cold climatic period called the Younger Dryas.

    ‘This episode occurred at or close to the time of major extinction of the North American megafauna, including mammoths and giant ground sloths; and the disappearance of the prehistoric and widely distributed Clovis culture. The researchers’ findings appear today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.’

    Watts is carrying the story.

  383. JAWS permalink
    June 13, 2012 10:58 pm

    Excellent news for South Australia.

    Being such loyal ALP supporters you lot get to lead the charge into a cleaner future with the highest power prices in the World.

    LOL

    Be proud and suck it up Princesses.
    You voted for them

  384. TB Queensland permalink
    June 14, 2012 11:04 am

    Centrelink asked me to come back with more proof of identity and details on how I survive

    Me too … and lot of info required for The Minister (two years my junior and not claiming) … they actually phoned us up after we sent the second lot … asked a couple of more questions and then told us it had been approved for the full amount (ie one person in a couple) …

    Your b-i-l’s issue is a bit concerning though! Still, I confess I never relied on a government pension (they change and they change the rules) … the plan was/is always to be independent … any pension benefits are icing on the cake …

    One of my little cliches/mottos … “Learn the system and use it to your advantage” … (but that doesn’t mean you cheat the system!)

  385. el gordo permalink
    June 14, 2012 2:27 pm

    ‘the plan was/is always to be independent … any pension benefits are icing on the cake …’

    That’s also my plan, but I’m fearful they want me to die in harness.

  386. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 14, 2012 3:17 pm

    The statement ““consumer demand is lagging policy” should go down as one of the great examples of doublespeak. Roughly translated it means that the plebs don’t understand that green policies are good for them so we’ll thieve their money through taxes and subsidise the stupid uneconomic ventures that they shun.

  387. el gordo permalink
    June 15, 2012 5:33 pm

    My prediction at Deltoid was correct and only my erstwhile enemy (TomR) gives me any credit.

    May 17, 2010, 5:58 pm

    On the surface all looks normal, but just below the surface the temperatures in the equatorial Pacific have gone seriously cold. We can expect La Nina to dominate over the coming decade and large floods in the land of Oz.

    http://www.nodc.noaa.gov/OC5/3M_HEAT_CONTENT/

    Good reporting on the blogosphere is about being ahead of the pack.

  388. el gordo permalink
    June 15, 2012 7:51 pm

    As July 1 draws near it might be the appropriate time to see where Julia’s largesse is heading.

    http://freebeacon.com/carbon-corruption/

  389. el gordo permalink
    June 16, 2012 7:13 am

    ‘SUBSIDIES for rooftop solar panels will cost consumers about $2.3 billion over the next year as the combination of a federal government solar subsidy program and state government feed-in tariffs add about $140 a year to household power bills.

    ‘The figures emerged as the South Australian government’s electricity regulator yesterday announced an 18 per cent rise in electricity prices for the state’s households, with the cost of the state’s solar feed-in tariff scheme outstripping that of the carbon tax. State and federal governments are facing calls for reform of the schemes as they are driving electricity prices higher, in addition to the increases associated with the carbon tax.’

    Maher and Owen in the Oz

  390. el gordo permalink
    June 16, 2012 6:12 pm

    More on Gergis et al.

    ‘The Palmyra Atoll coral proxy study is clearly an outlier statistically and geographically. In no way can it be considered a suitable proxy for the Australasia region, yet the major, headline, conclusion of the Gergis et al 2012 temperature reconstruction relied upon it.’

    To make matters worse the Law Dome ice core has the highest resolution in the world, but Gergis deliberately left it out. Good thing she was pulled up before going to print, her career would now be over… along with that ratbag Karoly.

  391. el gordo permalink
    June 18, 2012 5:07 pm

    The Klimatariat have gone bonkers in doing their adjustments.

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